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#185674 06/04/2007 4:56 PM
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Dealing with Trouble Makers

First its fair to say that each forum will have its own limits and levels of tolerance's.
So what may be right for one site may be over the top for another site.

As a guide to a moderate pain in the ass.

1. private message them and warn about a possible ban.
2. ban them if step one fails.

Honestly there really not worth the hassle.

Or if you feel that a Ban is a step too far then thats fine if it works for you. Only you will know the levels at what to act.

Most of all, don't let these idiots get to you.


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Another step is to set out some board rules in a sticky, locked topic and place a link to it in your sidebar (and/or registration area). If anyone crosses the line you can refer them to the rules thread.

You have to remember that in a way "it's not the real world" so as you say "don't let these idiots get to you."

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I'd like to know how other people handle trouble-makers. I know they come in all shapes and sizes, but I've always wondered how other admins deal with them.

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How ever you choose to deal with them,
make it one on one....

Not one onto the whole community, works for me.

That's if you have time that is wink


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I ban them, case closed wink


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I've found that those who want to cause trouble, play nicey-nice first, and get the community to like them. Often the things they do to cause trouble are unseen by the rest of the community - like making two IDs, and using them to create a flame war. So when I suddenly ban them, the rest of the community thinks I'm a jerk. How do you deal with that sort of thing?

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I have one right now. He just joined a week ago, and I know already he's going to be trouble - I get a gut feeling about them now.

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I've thrown out some very popular people due to not being able to follow, quite simple, rules... It is your responsibility as the site owner to keep the community safe, even if you have to ban those who should know better...


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Originally Posted by Rose
I have one right now. He just joined a week ago, and I know already he's going to be trouble - I get a gut feeling about them now.


you could send them a private message with a picture of
you're brothers..

Experience - does make you ban them quicker than normal.
Because you know there not worth the time and effort.

1 hr explaining why?
or
1 hr of input to your community.

That's what it boils down to for me.


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I could play Gramar Nazi, but I'm too tired :x


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Originally Posted by Gizmo
I could play Gramar Nazi, but I'm too tired :x
Was she married to Granpa Nazi?

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No, that'd be Großmutter und Großvater wink


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To avoid making things personally, we communicate all warnings and bans through e-mail from our generic contact address.

So it's not like "This stupid blaaskaak is banning people all over the place", the mail are always signed with "Staff". We just PM for really really minor stuff like a signature that's a bit too many lines, or some wallpaper size pics in a post.


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Good point that, i tell my moderators to use me Admin
as the scape goat. Admin told me to tell you.


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I maintain a Strike Forum.

I sometimes send private warnings for minor issues. If they're less than minor.

Strike 1 = 1 week suspension.
Strike 2 = 2 week suspension
Strike 3 = 1 month suspension
Strike 4 = banned

An explanation I post to the users of how we moderate:

Quote
An Explanation of the Philosophy Used to Moderate These Boards

The board guidelines are driven by a general philosophy about how to moderate, what makes a healthy board, and how members should be treated. Like any policy of "enforcement" it sounds awfully grim when you read it. We feel that it's important to understand not only the raw basics of the system, but also the thoughts and philosophies behind that enforcement policy. Like any human endeavor, board posting and moderation is full of grey areas and disagreements of opinion. This makes a clear mutual understanding of the philosophy of the boards not just a "nice to have" but a pretty crucial part of people feeling comfortable and happy with the atmosphere around here.

Board moderation is an art, not a science. Ultimately, it's a task that depends as much on the members of the board as it does on any ideas that the moderators have about how things should be handled. Every board's moderation must be orchestrated to embrace the culture of the bulk of its participants. That means that the level of moderation varies from group to group. In some groups, for instance, there is a looser standard towards "trash talking" and joking around because many members seem to enjoy it rather than get angry over it.

Cultivating a healthy and happy message board is a pretty dynamic and squishy process. The posters who stir up issues are also often the guys who have made significant contributions to the discussions over a long period of time. In the meantime, a fair percentage of the board seems to enjoy bantering with them in their little off-topic diatribes.

We could ban everyone that violates the general rules of conduct in a flare-up that lasts 24 hours, ignoring whatever positive contributions they have had over an extended period of time, but eventually this would result in a less healthy board. We prefer instead to work through a series of actions to check their behavior - that can ultimately lead to banning if that is required.

We will from time to time handle board members in violation of the general rules of conduct through a process that includes warnings and some acknowledgement of their overall contribution to the boards rather than quick and heavy banning. It can and has resulted in bannings, but infrequently. The result of this measured approach is, in our experience, a more vibrant community.

It's certainly not a perfect community. Some people don't like each other and show it and sometimes the posting gets out of hand and has to be corrected. These are, in our opinion, the hazards of maintaining an open community.

The bottom line is this: what we're trying to create is an open and friendly atmosphere that allows everyone to speak their mind, but keeps things on a level where as many people as possible are having a good time.

Moderation is tougher than it looks. All we can say is that we try to do our best. If all of you try to do YOUR best to meet these ideals BEFORE you hit the post button, things will go smoothly.

The following behaviors may result in action taken by board moderators This is not an exhaustive list, it is only intended to be a series of examples to help clarify what is meant.


* Physical threats

* Excessively graphic sexual references and/or images, particularly when used in an insulting manner toward other members, but also in general

* Strong profanity, primarily when used in an insulting manner toward other members

* Masking of strong profanity - finding ways to defeat the profanity filters put in place, primarily when used in an insulting manner toward other members. (i.e. typing "@ss" instead of the real word in order to circumvent the filters

* Harrasment of another member through unwanted and repeated arguing and conflict - particularly when exemplified by "following" that person from thread to thread

* Particularly excessive off-topic posting

* Hi-jacking of other people's threads in a way that stifles the originally intended topic against the objections of the thread creator

* Inappropriate user names.

* Posting of any information which encourages or enables illegal or fraudulent behavior by others, particularly in regards to the hobbies covered here.

* Spamming the boards with repeated or similar posts

* Racist or "hate crime" type comments

* Inappropriate references (analogies, etc.) to significantly emotional topics such as Nazis, slavery, etc.. If you have to wonder whether someone with a personal involvement in the topic would find your comment strongly offensive, you probably shouldn't make it.

* Threads started explicitly to bash other members

* Pork Barreling - placing small inappropriate statements within longer posts whose content is mainly legitimate. These post will get pulled and you will lose the positive with the negative.

* Creating shill accounts, accounts created as anonymous identities to push specific agendas.


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There was a strike system for UBB.Classic as a modification at UBB.Classic. I think a mod for threads would be cool as well wink... but that's more of a ubbdev kinda thing wink


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we've implemented a strike system similar. only difference is rather than suspension, the user group is changed to 'inmate' and the only forum they can view and post in is called 'alcatraz'

they get to decide, while in jail if they are going to return to being good. the jail sentence lasts for as long as necessary.

once it's the 3rd strike, it's gonzo time.

btw, alcatraz is viewable by all users.. they can't post in there, but they can watch the 'inmates' squirm and get admonished by the appointed 'wardens' (mods).

it makes for entertainment as well..

also, when a user is in jail, they lose Search and PM rights.

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yeh, I enjoy things first person view wink...

lol can i be a warden? this sounds fun, like our "#help" channel, which should more be #prison" on our irc server... Only people who can enter the channel have had their connection locked to the channel so we can watch them squirm lol


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I only do two things. Firstly I put the user on individual moderation and PM ban. If this doesn't work, they get banned. In the seven years I've had my website, I've only had to ban about six people. It's always traumatic - for me and our users. frown

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Only ever had to ban two users. In both cases legal action was taken against them.

Usually, I get very little trouble. :touchwood:

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Rose: Yes, the fallout from banning a member from your forums can be dizasterous at times... Reguardless of if your community actually LIKED the person the attitude can be devistating even up to the days resulting from and after the event...


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I banned 6 at the same time wink
Took them down and we are still here to tell the tail wink

Since they went (The Mouth Squad) everything became
harmony again, well after a few weeks lol.

Out of the six bans ranged from 6 weeks to 6 months.
And 3 of them now are loyal members wink

Strange old world.

Originally Posted by Sirdude
btw, alcatraz is viewable by all users.. they can't post in there, but they can watch the 'inmates' squirm and get admonished by the appointed 'wardens' (mods).

it makes for entertainment as well.

link kink kinky wink


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Well, at our community, I was one of the founding members, another of us was basically made an admin and was running things when I left...

I came back years later, and ended up buying the community; he seemed to think it was his but the owner saw otherwise...

Well, to make a long story short, I gave him the oppertunity to keep his post, but without server level access to the site due to my security policies... he flipped out, and I destaffed him...

I left his "friends" as staff, but they all decided to create another site to compete with ours and where stealing memers... so I banned the whole lot of them...


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Giz, I'm having a similar problem at the moment. A couple of people who were unhappy at my community got one of those nasty out-of-the-box forums and opened an opposition site, calling themselves the Castaways (none of them had been banned or anything). They also tried to recruit members from my site, but after about six weeks they haven't managed to coax anyone yet. They have five members in total.

I guess it's not really a problem, because my site is very well established and I can't really call them competition, but it's very strange behaviour. I could care less about the competition, but I hate that they try to recruit my members.

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'eh I find it as this, they're being a menace and sending advertisements to my members who do not wish to recieve spam, so in ridding my community of spammers I'm saving them from harassment...


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We used to call our competition site our Recycle Bin
where all the idiots or banned members went after us lol

We often joked that we were happy to have that site
there as it kept all the crap away from us wink

And it does lol.


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Lol, interesting way of things... The bad part was, when these competition sites poped up, it was generaly valueable members who went trying to make a name for themselves; so a lot of useful information took off with them :/


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Originally Posted by Mark S
We used to call our competition site our Recycle Bin
where all the idiots or banned members went after us lol

We often joked that we were happy to have that site
there as it kept all the crap away from us wink

And it does lol.

Mark, you are so right!! That's another reason why it doesn't bother me too much. In fact it's a happy thing, right? smile

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The problem is that you can not really ban a troll. They keep on coming back for more

I have a few trolls on my board and they look like an army to the rest of the community... they use multiple ID's... anonymous proxy servers... you name it... they know how to delete cookies so they double ID' detectors do not pick them up

I am like Gizmo... ban them and case closed but it isn ot really closed... sometimes I only set them to read only so it takes longer for them to come back and do not have to register a new account is they only wanted to read

The idea is not to loose members...

Banning people is not so good as setting people to read only... as that does not get them so upset... and a comeback cvan be negotiated...

Have set my board not to allow members to PM before they make a certain number of posts. Takes some efort to post before they can Spam by PM... also have the board set so you have to wait a day or two before you can post...

Been using a lot of mods on 6.5 and not upgrading to 7.2 and wsnting to know what is available for Spam control for 7.2

I have tryed it all...

Had my share of members leaving ot create their own boards and and try to take our members with them... that is the way of the net, the world... top cats want their own... which sucks for board owner being hit by Spam... but it also a good indicator that other want what you have. After many years running boards I am still not sure what makes a community tick and prosper...

But no community want to loose their top posters to other communities...

I feel I need a better double ID's checker and a better way to check and match IP's, and ban IP's...

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rather than ban and if the alcatraz route hasn't yet worked, i'll also just put them into the "Moron group", where a board hack will choose from an array of pre-defined posts. Regardless of what they type and 'Submit', the addpost/editpost routine will instead pick from (for example)

1. i'm an idiot
2. yeppers, marbles are sharper than i am
3. holy crap, i'm a moron
...

etc..

they can edit or whatever, but still end up with a randomly generated string of idiotic stuff.

when their sockpuppets reappear, they get lumped into that group..

i find that they eventually tire and give up.. all the same time providing entertainment for the onlookers..

2c

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A big key to that is to reject free email sign ups, because it makes it just painful enough for them to sign up another shill that it's more work for them to find a new unbanned free email provider than for you to ban them.

If you can shift the work so that they pay a higher price to come back in time and energy than you do to ban them then they get tired before you do.

It does limit participation a little as some legit members would like to sign up with their yahoo or gmail account, but I've found that it hasn't been that much of an impediment.


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LOL Sirdude, I LOVE that! laugh

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Well, I'm ultimately sure solutions exist in IIS and Apache, but I'm relatively certain that you can block anonymous proxy servers from accessing your server (ultimately banning specific well known ports from originating); hell, you may even be able to do this from iptables in linux


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Quote
but I'm relatively certain that you can block anonymous proxy servers from accessing your server

How do you do that, Giz?

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It'd require full root access; which I doubt just about anyone has...

But I'm certain there are several apache modules, as well as iptables rules (which can block source ports) and likely several daemon's.


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Well if you can't use a free e-mail account then that would boot me from a dozen sites.

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<snicker> your isp doesn't give you an email account? you don't have one from a domain you own? yeh, you'd be screwed wink...

We used to ban AOL ;0


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Yes I have from both, but I don't normally use them. No sense in every site spamming me at those locations.

In fact I don't even check mail on my ISP account. Nothing in there but SPAM as I've never given it out to anyone or used it.

Just pointing out that there are people that just won't join your site if they can't use a free mail account, or unless you have something to offer that they really want and can't find somewhere else.

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agreed, but if you're "under attack" by preteens with nothing better to do, not many choices wink


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:ooks like someone could make some $$$ by creating a list of free email domains and another list of IP's used by anonymous prozy servers, torrify, etc...

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by JAISP, December 30
Artistic structures
Artistic structures
by isaac, August 29
Stones
Stones
by isaac, August 19
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