Every few weeks I swing by here and am totally impressed by Screamer's high-pitched updating. But the most important thing to me never gets better. The high-learning-curve interface
The little icons, etc etc are confusing to ME, and I've been doing all manner of online activity (admin and otherwise) since the 80's. For my newbie-heavy site, there's little hope at all. It's unbelievably confusing, help is scant and hard to find, and in general, you've gotta be somewhat of a tech stud to use these boards.
I love Screamer's industriousness, and I love you guys, but everytime I revisit these boards and take a long look with the clueless eyes of a newbie, I sadly wag my head. No way. Not a chance.
I've raised this issue with Screamer via email, and he's admitted that newbie ease-of-use and clear explanation are not particularly his forte, and I've tried to work with him on it. But...guess what? He's really really busy churning out all these updates all the time. He's made some simple changes, which have helped a bit, but it's clearly not something he wants to really tackle. He's only one guy, doing a superhuman job, and it'd be great if he'd bring on a partner or hire an employee who could share the burden and maybe bring to the project a better eye for UI issues.
Before I give up, and go with an inferior forum s/w package, I just want to throw this out there: has anyone found a way to hack this interface to give Aunt Edna in Peoria a working chance of being able to tackle these boards?
Insistence that wwwthreads really IS newbie-friendly will fall on deaf ears. I know my usership, and it ain't even close. And not getting closer. Alas.
Well I am to launch a W3T forum on a site FILLED with newbies soon... we've got 'em all, AOL, webTV, american online, 'what's a cd?', 'this darn thing don't work' and the rest. But, with my easy to read post icons and a modified integration of Wolf's instruction set, I think we'll do just fine, maybe even better than the current forum, which took about a day for them to get used to. Of course, this isn't a great answer, just some comments. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Good luck,
Muhammad Chishti Creative dIRECTOR <font color=white><A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>
Well the forum I plan to integrate the instructions to is not up yet, perhaps within a week or two it will be though! But, you can see my icons at <A HREF="http://www.tiertown.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl" target="_new">http://www.tiertown.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl</A> or in the resource center under Appearance> Images.
WolfUK submitted a great, easy to understand set of instructions for W3T. Go here: <A HREF="http://www.wwwthreads.com/perl/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=custom&Number=11129&page=&view=&sb=&vc=1#Post11129" target="_new">http://www.wwwthreads.com/perl/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=custom&Number=11129&page=&view=&sb=&vc=1#Post11129</A> - I plan to integrate them into the FAQ and will post the changes once I do.
Muhammad Chishti Creative dIRECTOR <font color=white><A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>
I really don't like the idea of this help stuff being in a FAQ...that's not what a FAQ's really about. FAQs are for more general issues, explaining extra functionalities, etc. people who need help (that is, ANYONE taking their first look at one of these boards) need HELP and they need it close (right "in" the window, not as a header on a menubar), well-marked, and thorough.
It took me a couple of weeks of poking around with W3T to realize that stuff was in the FAQ
sorry...not trying to be cranky and negative, just to try to explain what I think the problems are. I love the features of this program, and wish my site's usership were more sophisticated
Muhammad, Very nice webiste you had there.. Can you share with us your layout ? I use the original W3T layout and I am not really happy with it.. My users said it makes them confused..
Hmmmm. You'll be back. You've forgotten the major problem with other boards - flat files. When your idiot-friendly board slows to a grinding crawl because of the overload you'll rememember why you came here in the first place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Sigh. Eileen, s/w doesn't have to be idiotic to be accessible. I realize that there's a lot of loyalty for W3T on these boards--and I can understand why--but groupthink can be dangerous, and if you guys are stoically expecting newbies, over time, to smarten up and plunge into W3T in spite of its inaccessibility....well, that's just wagging the dog. And a doomed battle.
This thinking is especially silly in light of the fact that nothing substantial NEEDS to be dumbed down; the program just needs lots of (highly overdue, IMO) consideration re: interface. I realize that techie people tend to spurn such considerations as window dressing, but like it or not, this ain't 1994, and 95% of people on the web are non-tech oriented, and a webmaster of a non-tech site will paralyze and intimidate his users if he were to throw them into W3T in its present form. I think many of you are too deeply into the program to see this, which to me is a patently obvious fact.
It'd be a lot easier to take a great program like W3T and put serious work into making it more intuitive, friendly, and ergonomically considered than it would be to add features to a less powerful program). But before there can be a solution, there's gotta be recognition of the problem. And except for some noble attempts by Muhammed (and his icons) and Wolf (and his read-me's), I don't see a groundswell of interest around here. I'm speaking up because I think a lot of potential W3T customers feel exactly the way I do...and I think they tend to simply choose other s/w rather than voice their opinions. I really appreciate W3T, and so I've chosen not to fade away silently.
You don't see much because you haven't looked far enough. Take a look at at my <A HREF="http://www.amdragon.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/newpost.pl?Cat=&Board=test&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5" target="_new">http://www.amdragon.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/newpost.pl?Cat=&Board=test&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5</A> or Peelboy's <A HREF="http://www.thepeel.com/maxima/forum/wwwthreads.pl?Cat=" target="_new">http://www.thepeel.com/maxima/forum/wwwthreads.pl?Cat=</A> or Phoenix's <A HREF="http://www.conceivingconcepts.com/cgi-local/forum/" target="_new">http://www.conceivingconcepts.com/cgi-local/forum/</A>.
Just out of curiosity, which board *have* you decided fits your bill?
Checked your links. Lots of zingy brite colors and cutesy graphics; nothing addressing my concerns. I'm not looking for "happy". I'm looking for "comprehensible".
And I am far, far from alone in considering W3T too high a learning-curve program for newbies. Whether the page is steely grey or turquoise and pink.
The FAQ is lame. The Big Help File approach (ala Wolf and Fertility Phoenix) is a desperation move, as awkward and unlikely-consulted as a big thick manual. Muhammad's annotated icons help a whit. More is needed. Much more. Not simple patch jobs, but not revamping of the whole thang, either.
I don't understand what your looking for. Is it too hard for a person to click on an icon that says post and then fill a simple form. Whats the problem with the profile page? Are the expected users of your forum that dumb that they can't add their e-mail address or name? Maybe your right wwwthreads isn't for you. You need Matt Wrights forum. Nice and simple. You take it for granted your users lack intelligence enough to fill out a simple form. If a person is that naive about the internet then they're not even going to find your site so it wouldn't matter what you used. In all your posts so far all you have done was complain about the software package yet you haven't yet mentioned what you would like to see changed. All you have done is whine about it not being user friendly. Bob
I would have thought 'zingy brite colors and cutesy graphics' would appeal to the morons you appear to be seeking to serve. You seem so intent on being offensive that you are deliberately blind to the user friendly aspects of those sites I sent you to see.
Do come back when you have something up and running that we can all come and admire. And do try to play nicely with the other children.
BTW it's not 'Screamer', it's Scream - and he has the patience of a saint.
I agree that W3T needs a little bit of help on the user interface, but I don't think that it's quite as bad as you make it out to be.
A couple of quick hits would be to a) modify the buttons to get rid of cryptic icons b) modify the language set to spell out what the user can do at each step.
For example, check out my opening message for unregistered users on <A HREF="http://www.b2business.net/cgibin/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl" target="_new">http://www.b2business.net/cgibin/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl</A> ... all you need to do is modify a text file which contains some default text.
If I were to give a laundry list of specific things I'd like changed, it'd be just that...one guy's laundry list. Who cares?
I'm fishing around to see if, as a general rule, there are others who have the same feeling I do re: the interface, and have perhaps come up with tweaks and workarounds.
I've tried unsuccessfully to lobby Screamer about specific solutions. And even if he WERE motivated to achieve a more approachable interface, I simply don't have time to propose solutions to all the problems myself. Nor should I...I'm a potential customer, not a staffer.
And if anyone finds themselves unchallenged by the interface, well...fine. Perhaps (seriously) you're much brighter and more capable than me...and my users....and the many other people I know who consider the program highly intimidating to the average non-savvy user. Maybe you, Extrm Bob, are simply not the kind of user I'm talking about. So.....what's your point? What's good for Extrm Bob is good for everyone?
But to speak to your examples, I do agree that filling in fields is pretty elementary. Am right with yuh on that one, Extrm Bob! But perhaps for you it's just as trivial to decode stuff like "Post Format ( top = Post headers on top : side = Post headers on the left)" and "TextArea rows?" and "Total posts to show on one page when viewing a thread in flat mode (default is 10)". And I bet you came out of the womb understanding the diff between threaded and flat, and the specific subtleties of sorting and displaying each. And a flashing sheet of paper couldn't be anything BUT a new message compose, and the diff between "plus" and "minus" and left arrow and right arrow are abundantly obvious in their (totally unannotated) connotations. An icon with two horizontal bars? Man, how could I BE so stupid as to miss their significance! And if, by chance, you DIDN'T know what an icon meant...or what the geekspeak on the display prefs was about...well, those issues are so clearly confusing that they've GOT to be questions frequently asked. So go to the FAQ...and scroll and scroll and scroll...for a tad more info a tad more clearly delineated.
And I suppose you always know where you are in the heirarchy of indexes and meta index. And that you acquired an instant feel for how the cookies show new stuff (and your finger hits the "refresh" button when the cookies don't work, just out of instinct). and you've got strategies galore for diving through myriad boards and finding only the replies to your postings...or to read only new stuff posted anywhere. And you always remember which boards you've already checked. And all your strategies were acquired INSTANTLY, because you, like most users, probably wouldn't stick around if you didn't get the instant gratification most web surfers demand.
Pity the rest of us, without your skills. I've GOT to, because I've got a community to serve, and while they like my site a LOT, they ain't willing to go to night school to bone up on how to use my message boards.
And the answer to this might indeed be a simple "well, go buy some other software and stop whining". But it I did, it'd be a pity. Because I understand and appreciate W3T. I'm exactly the kind of customer who should be snapping it up and evangelizing it, since it's the best, most powerful least buggy solution. And I see how close it is to perfection, and how many mainstream customers Screamer is losing because of these issues. The problem is that tech dudes just NEVER have much consideration for any of this stuff. Which is why bad software with accessible interface (think AOL) wins every time. And us geeks aren't that smart after all if we don't see this and think more broadly about user needs now that we're a tiny minority on the Internet.
Ok, I'm gonna shut up and just read replies now...I don't really have anything more to say about any of this.
Ok, the interface is not "so" bad, but it's bad enough that I can't implement it and I WANT to. Which bums me out.
Unless I'm missing something, I think you're having me look at your explanatory announcements(??), which are indeed well done. But it's been my experience that if you have to explain stuff, most skip the explanation and try to blunder on, some read but misunderstand, and some go away because it's all just too much hassle. Web users are VERY explanation-intolerant, because most webmasters bend over backwards to anticipate and ease their experience. Users are spoiled!
So I'm not a fan of the manual/FAQ/explanation approach (at least on the web). The interface has to be intuitive, and any remaining ambiguity is best explained as close to the point of contention as possible...this is what I mean by "contextual" help. Explain icons next to the icons (or provide cursor-pass-over explanations at bottom of browser window), explain the prefs right next to the various fields. Give resources for tracking where you are in the hierarchy, and context sensitive help for what you can do at each level.
Shame on you, Jim. Being a renowned authority does not give you the right to be a domineering bully. Are we supposed to be cowed into respectful submission? You can't come into the ring throwing punches and then cry foul and turn petulant when one is returned. On your site - <A HREF="http://www.chowhound.com/main.html" target="_new">http://www.chowhound.com/main.html</A> - (which is positively bristling with Message Boards and has a lot of verbose faqs, guidelines and explanations) you say, "While chowhounds can sometimes be wise guys (it comes with being opinionated), we welcome anyone who sincerely wants to throw away their Zagat safety net and join our intrepid quest. ... Then, once you do voice your opinion, stand your ground! Just because your preference may be unpopular, that doesn't make it wrong. We love strong opinions, but taste is, in the end, a subjective thing."
So no spitting and hair pulling; step up to the line and let's have a good clean fight.
BTW Your users look pretty bright to me. Are you sure you aren't underestimating them?
What the... did I miss the "action"? No, seriously, I decided to get W3T because I found it intuitive and easy to use - it's not a hard thing to click on a button that shows a return arrow, tooltip "Reply to this post", or click on "New User" in the menu to put in a username and e-mail address... Anyone who can't do that, would hardly be able to get online in the first place. Editing the profile is no big issue, since it's optional, and straight forward forms like any on the web. If you have any real constructive comments, I'd love to hear them, chowhound, but I don't care about rumblings and whining, when you can't even describe what you think could be improved. If you look around, many of us here have been coming up with solutions to problems and ideas, often within a very short time. How about making some real suggestions, we can look into? How can the interface be made more intuitive in your opinion?
Good point, I need to change that edit profile beyond not letting them hid under 'who's online'.
Muhammad Chishti Creative dIRECTOR <font color=white><A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>
Well I haven't even started to work on it yet, so I will think of the options when I do... perhaps in another section called 'help' or maybe 'info' - whatever.
Why don't you ask some of your users to go into a W3T forum (this one or one of our sites) and ask them to see if they have a terrible difficulty using the forum. You may be surprised, or did you already try that?
Muhammad Chishti Creative dIRECTOR <font color=white><A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>
And yes the password specify option is in the current release (was new for 5.0 I think).
Muhammad Chishti Creative dIRECTOR <font color=white><A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>
That layout shows the changes I made to two of the files. Since I have changed over 30 files so the forum looks quite a bit different. I will be updating that forum with the new changes I made soon - I have been making the new changes in another directory, that is the public forum.
As for sharing them, I will have to think it over, since upgrading will erase the changes and reset the format. I will see about creating a readme with what has been changed, where, and how you'll have to change in future releases to maintain the look.
Muhammad Chishti Creative dIRECTOR <font color=white><A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>
Ok I just uploaded the other design changes to <A HREF="http://www.tiertown.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl" target="_new">http://www.tiertown.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl</A>
Muhammad Chishti Creative dIRECTOR <font color=white><A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>
Yes, I agree with you that an elaborate FAQ is not always well received.
Yes, I was having you look at the explanatory announcement ("you are not logged in. You may register(link) , login(link) , or click on a board below to participate without registering").
But I'm a little puzzled at your comments, because that's precisely the kind of hand-holding I thought you were saying you would like to provide. FYI, all the text that appears in various points is all in one file... so you can simply edit the text and to make it very simple for your users to particpate.
If you combine this with super-self-explanatory buttons (eg Tiertown that Eileen mentioned), I think you'd be 99% of the way there.
The one thing where I think W3T might stand a little bit of improvement on would be a "You are here" kind of marker which would show a user where they are. I'm not sure how to do it right. UltimateBB takes a shot at it with their little folder trees, but I don't particularly like that method.
Do you have anything particular in mind? I think that you'll find that by tweaking things here and there, you can accomplish a lot more.
A final point... not to mention the database back-end story again, but from a user interface perspective, many of the super-easy discussion boards you might have seen are also frequently limited to a single board... by using only a single category and a single board, you might find that a lot of the issues you may have in mind simply disappear.
"many of the super-easy discussion boards you might have seen are also frequently limited to a single board... by using only a single category and a single board, you might find that a lot of the issues you may have in mind simply disappear?"
not an option, I'm afraid. And once again, more features/power does NOT have to mean more confusion. But it does require more ingenuity in presentation.
A "you are here" map might help, so long as it didn't seem (like the FAQ) like a patch job.
for other problems see my (regrettably sarcastic, I let him get under my skin) message to Extrm Bob at:
I Figured this would be the best spot to post a reply to this to just speak up and let everyone know where my priorities are. You are right in that some of the things can be a bit cryptic and need a bit more explanation. To add more descriptive terms to the icons would mean taking up more screen space and I don't want the whole thing looking cluttered. I guess we could alter the alt tags so when your arrow is over them they would give a better explanation of what the icons mean. More descriptive instructions in the profile just means editing the language files, so this isn't a big issue.
The driving factor in my priorities is basically time. What should I spend my time on. I like to believe I take a little bit different approach than alot of businesses. Yes, I want new customers to continue buying but probably 75% of my time goes to feature requests made by existing customers. Many companies would think, well you bought, you get what you paid for. Now how can we get more people to buy? I'm not out for world domination in the Message Board market.
This isn't to say that I don't want to cater to potential customer's requests. It's just that I only have so many hours in the day so I try to spend it on what the majority of people want. If there is a huge problem with the complexity of WWWThreads then I would believe I would hear about this from my existing customers and I would take the time to act on it. That is my best source of feedback for direction. I have a limited number of people that visit here, but my current customers have a combined mass of users and I'm sure that their user's are suggesting things all of the time as well. In which case many of them report back here about these requests.
So, it's not that I am not motivated or not interested in fixing current problems or adding new things to make it easier to use. Though I am the one that ultimately decides on what to work on next, my customers and users of this forum are the ones that point out the most glaring needs.
Yes, ingenuity in presentation is always a good thing.
I think that some of the reactions you're getting are due to a couple of things... you have to understand that W3T provides a strong cooperative community of users, which IMHO is just as important as any particular features it may or may not have at any point in time.
I think that if you kindof scratched your head and said "gee, if x, y and z were done, the inteface would be much cooler/easier", you'd find a number of people who might agree with at least a subset of your suggestions, would proceed to code it, and Scream would proceed to incorporate the features in future versions. That's pretty priceless.
Your motives and priorities are spot on. You are the most receptive, responsive and accommodating programmer most of us have ever encountered. Please stay exactly the way you are and don't get rattled by professional critics.
Now, about this interface... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Stephan, I agree re: the community, as I've said several times.
And what everyone seems to be missing is that, again, I HAVE rolled up my sleeves and tried to address these issues with Scream (some of which he did respond to...again, many wording changes and menu bar changes in 5.0 were mine, as well as the title names). And I have tried to follow up with him on other UI issues, but he's been too busy to respond (again, I'm not mad at him...he's super-busy, it's just that these issues are apparently not a priority for him). And I've mentioned some of these unaddressed issues on these boards. But many of the denizens here share Scream's "features-first" priority, and that's a big part of what's driving him to deprioritize UI issues. Given some of the reaction to my postings, I see that it's a more severe problem than even I'd anticipated... sigh. It's a nasty feedback loop.
All in all I've spent many hours on a program I don't even use. This is WAY beyond the call of non-customer duty.
Scream, a fine answer, and pretty much what I figured was the case.
Your customer base wants features and power and their users have gotten used to the program, so you move forward with features and power. Though this may cost you new customers, you've kind of made a decision.
Understand: I'm not telling you that I think you made the wrong decision. I'm just trying to add the voice of a mainstream webmaster to the mix here and explain why I--someone who's pretty close to the program in some ways--am going to have to opt for other software.
I figured I'm kind of the optimal reject customer to come in and state his reasoning, because I'm someone who understands and appreciates and has helped in the past. Other people who don't buy just fade away.
But, one last point....if you read through this thread (and Wolf's instruction thread, and a few other places), there've been a few other users mentioning user confusion. They mention it quietly, and they're trying to patch the problems with what amount to quick fixes. So while I'm the only one making a big deal, there are murmurs in here (though they're not likely to surface much after I've had my head chewed off for voicing these concerns). FWIW.
Hi chowhound, Ok on all points... but how about repeating over here some of the specifics that you requested from Scream? You never know, some of us my agree with some of your suggestions.
Jim, You're making the wrong distinction. We don't NOT want a better GUI; we just want powerful features *first*. Meanwhile, most of us can and do tweak the interface ourselves to fit the tastes and requirements of our own users. It will be nice to have that made easier but it's not of paramount importance. Face it, we'll still be making modifications to personalize our own interfaces long after Scream's distribution comes out of the box with a face to meet even the most exacting standards. It's what webmasters do...
Just how serious have you ever been about using w3t anyway? We've had no evidence that you even installed the Free version to experiment with. Have you ever tried requesting changes of the author of any other package when you haven't shown any commitment to his program? None of the old hands is as accessible or amenable as Scream. Try them. They instantly recognize a sadly familiar scenario: It's always the guy who wants you to jump through hoops up front who never actually comes through and buys.
We could do well to heed to Jim's comments. It's not often we hear from the silent majority and it should be looked at as an opportunity rather than a denigration. It ocurred to me this was also the tone of Jim's messages.
They say squeaky wheels get the most oil. It seems some of the squeaky wheels aren't keen on sharing the oil around. I don't like to see positive critisms beaten into submission.
Maybe the specifics of Jim's arguments aren't to everyone's tastes but I can't see how anyone who is truly interested in the progression and development of w3t as a complete solution, head-and-shoulders above it's competitors, can disagree with the thrust of his argument.
From my perspective, I would prefer to see the development of w3t proceed with less haste in adding new cosmetic or minor features and more time spent addressing the less exciting but necessary issues such as clear and comprehensive documentation on every aspect of its operation.
W3t is like the starting pitcher in the college team, it's competitors are the bench warmers and high school dropouts. Why not take it to the Major Leagues?
This is quite an interesting thread and it splits nicely into two sides ... those who want technical improvements and those who want layout improvements.
Technical improvements are always necessary to advance a product and to keep it at the top of the pile. The features that WWWThreads offer are excellent and its stability, speed and capabilities are wonderful.
An intuitive GUI is also important for a successful product. From my point of view, if someone doesn't like the look of my forum or they can't understand how to use it then they use someone else's site and forum and I loose visitors.
So where's the middle ground?
First, let me say that I wrote the instructions due to a handful of emails I was getting. Probably about 1% of my users email me to ask for guidance on how to use the forum - not a great demand.
There is the problem that HTML does not lend itself towards great UIs. If the package was written in C++ or VB or similar then I am sure that it could be made to look beautiful.
JavaScript could be used to enhance the software (a small area of the screen could show detail of what buttons do when you move the mouse over them) but I personally hate JS and some browsers don't support it. With the exception of the admin facility to select a user JS is not used anywhere in WWWThreads.
Perhaps the users should have an option whereby an extra text block is inserted in their page with screen-related instructions. This would be similar to my possible instructions enhancement where I want the instructions link to show a page of help related to the screen the user is on.
Having said all that, I think that the view you seem to hold that a user should need no help to use an application is a bit simplistic. When was the last time you used any PC-based software that came without a help file or a manual (most come with both). If users want to learn how to use something then they will usually be prepared to do some reading about it either first or whilst playing around with the software.
Yes, I agree, WWWThreads could do with being a bit more user-friendly but because I have no specific ideas I'll keep in the background, write user instructions and ask my forum visitors to refer to them. If I have a great idea to make WWWThreads easy to use then I will propose it (and perhaps have a go at implementing it).
Finally, WWWThreads is not what I consider to be a 'professional' package. By this I mean that it is not a several hundred (or thousand) dollar solution. I consider it to be almost shareware. One hundred dollars is not a vast amount to pay for something so powerful and flexible. Because of this I don't expect Rick to provide me with a perfect solution. If WWWThreads had a several-person development team behind it (and I mean full-time, not part-time) then I would expect a clear, easy to use, easy to install, feature rich system. As it is, WWWThreads is fairly clear, fairly easy to use, relatively easy to install and feature rich. For one hundred dollars I'm prepared to accept a few short-falls.
I may be wrong here but I get the impression that Rick develops WWWThreads in his spare time. If it was his primary source of income then I guess that he would be much more customer driven and determined to give everybody everything that they want. Than again he would have the time to achieve that.
My suggestion ... If you want a great looking and powerful forum system then be prepared to fork out a lot of money. If you want to achieve things on a smaller budget then you have to accept that there will be some things you don't like. You always have the option to commission a developer to modify the system for you.
You make some good points in your posts but you have to understand that Rick is targetted towards the functionality side of things. That's his perogative and I am sure that he is aware (especially now) that the front-end could do with some work.
If I may be so bold, why not put together some ideas as graphics files (mock up some screen layouts and text labels, etc.) and post them here as an attachment. Perhaps someone will like them and make the modifications necessary. Perhaps, after that, Rick will include them in an official release.
Simon Wolf, Webmaster, Access All Areas <A HREF="http://www.athree.com" target="_new">http://www.athree.com</A>
Fair enough. I've mentioned some specific concerns on these boards in the past, and a bunch of 'em are scattered thru this thread, but give me a day or so to organize my thoughts and post a whole, coherent message.
the thing I HATE (and was alluded to by some of my flamers) is to sound like some single guy's individual laundry list that he wants met. There are LOTS of things I'd love in this s/w for my own individual reasons, and I'm very happy to wait patiently in line before even MENTIONING them. The concerns I've been up front with are more general...problems that make W3T seen as confusing/demanding.
I totally dig that Scream isn't trying for "world domination in the bbs s/w market" (that's the way I run my site, too, narrow and focused on the needs of my community) but there's no reason it couldn't meet the needs of more mainstream sites like mine. It just takes some effort and desire. I'll post a list and we'll see if y'all agree with any of them.
That sounds great, Jim. I would definitely like the software to appeal to as many people as possible. I don't want to discourage potential customers from buying or sharing their ideas or thoughts. So this would be very helpful in that others could comment/discuss all of the ideas to see what really needs to be done.
