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#167530 11/02/2006 2:58 PM
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Generated in 0.018 seconds in which 0.002 seconds were spent on a total of 9 queries.

When both numbers are fairly low, everything is pretty much fine. smile

But what's the issue when the first number rises dramatically while the second one stays normal:

Generated in 9.149 seconds in which 0.032 seconds were spent on a total of 13 queries.

What would cause only the first part to skyrocket?

Conrad #167532 11/02/2006 3:03 PM
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Hmmm. just got a [/i]"Generated in 20.513 seconds in which 0.017 seconds were spent on a total of 9 queries."[/i]

Funny thing is that I just doubled the RAM on my server about 10 mins ago. Running on 2 gigs now after being on just 1 GB for the past year...

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I get this all the time, but my server is b0ged so it'd explaine it...


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Gizmo #167554 11/02/2006 6:27 PM
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so, the database returned the answer in .017 seconds, but then it took about 20 to process the answer and display it.

sounds like a machine with a ton of RAM but slow someplace else. CPU slow(ish)? drives slow(ish)?

To be honest, I've never looked at the way Rick wrote this cache stuff to see if the board needs to complete a cache creation/update operation before the page loads. If it does, and your discs are slow, that might do it.

Maybe the query that was run returned quickly, but returned a huge array of data and the CPU was too slow to operate on it faster than 20 seconds?

Either could be true. Rick would have a better idea how to look, and which to update next.


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Right, so if the first part is what's delaying the output, then I might be doing the wrong thing by concentrating on fine-tuning "my.cnf".

After upgrading to 2GB I just bumped the "key_buffer" to 256M (and the "table_cache" to 512). Not sure what I need exactly but I have around 700 users simultaneously at peak time and a rather large database to deal with.

Funny think is that the CPU shouldn't really be overworked as it's a Dual Xeon and in the stats it seems like it's plain sailing all the way. The drive isn't SCSI or even SATA, maybe that's the issue. But some of these delays are coming when the number of people online is about 150 and not 700. Very strange...

Conrad #167563 11/02/2006 7:01 PM
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As long as the 2nd number, time spent on queries, is low then your MySQL server is running and handling the queries fine. Do you have SSH access to the server? If it's a unix box then when you notice the slow times you can run 'top' on the server and get an idea of what's going on at the server level. Maybe a high load average at the time, something of that nature.

I assume you're still running 6.5? I'd keep an eye if the slow times appear on any particular pages. From the looks of the debug line it just appears that for some reason the server has a lot going on at that particular time.

Rick #167565 11/02/2006 7:06 PM
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Thanks guys. On a side note, if I'm having time-out issues when backing up the DB via the CP, which my.cnf setting can I alter to make sure that the backup runs smoothly?

Conrad #167567 11/02/2006 7:11 PM
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You also might want to look at the php.ini in the area of how many seconds are allowed to process scripts.. That's where time out errors generally come from.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; Resource Limits ;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

max_execution_time = 240 ; Maximum execution time of each script, in seconds
max_input_time = 240 ; Maximum amount of time each script may spend parsing request data
memory_limit = 16M ; Maximum amount of memory a script may consume (16MB)

these are normally set at like 60 seconds etc..

Last edited by Mors; 11/02/2006 7:12 PM.

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Conrad #167568 11/02/2006 7:13 PM
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Also, if I decide to take a short-cut and just use the "my-huge.cnf" settings, is there anything there that I really should NOT have enabled (regardless of mem issues)?

Conrad #167569 11/02/2006 7:13 PM
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no should be fine. what version of mysql ?


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Mors #167570 11/02/2006 7:18 PM
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Version 4.0.22.

In the Mysql process list in WHM I see the following:

| 5 | eximstats | localhost | eximstats | Sleep | 485 |

Could this be slowing things down?

Last edited by Conrad; 11/02/2006 7:19 PM.
Conrad #167571 11/02/2006 7:21 PM
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Don't think so .. looks good to me. for the timeout issue check the php.ini and raise the amount of time allowed for a script to run and you should be ok as far as I can tell.


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Mors #167572 11/02/2006 7:23 PM
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Right, if the posts table is over 500 megs, do you think I should raise the "memory_limit" variable?

Conrad #167573 11/02/2006 7:27 PM
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I would use the setting defaulted in my_huge.cnf. Not so sure in version 4 of MySQL but if you allowcate to much memory for paging, indexing etc.. it can have an adverse effect. we are working with standard table types here not innodb.

I have always had good luck with the defaulted settings in version 4. I run Version MySQL 5 now.


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Not just top, but look at some of the utilities such as iostat. If that drive is just a plain old IDE drive then you could be having your problem there. rebuilding cache, rewriting temp tables, etc. Any or all of that could be an issue. If so then dropping more memory into mysql so that it uses tmp tables less often would help to a degree, but it wouldn't be the fix-all.


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Many thanks guys, it's all starting to click together.

Just a quick question about backing up large tables (the posts one is over 500 megs) via the CP. If I had trouble with the process timing out, would changing the "memory_limit = 16M " variable help?

Conrad #167667 11/03/2006 5:41 PM
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If you have direct access to the server, I'd do a command line backup. It's much quicker and you bypass PHP and the webserver completely.

mysqldump databasename -u username -p > database.dump

Replace databasename with the name of the database

Replace username with the database username

It will prompt you for the database password.

Command line is always going to be the quickest and most reliable means of doing a backup.

Rick #167672 11/03/2006 6:10 PM
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OK, seems like the best way forward. Just a few quick questions for someone who will be doing this for the first time...:

- how long with the dump take compared to a CP backup?

- where will the dump be saved?

- will all the tables be saved separately?

- how will I know if the dump has been successful and hasn't given me a partial backup?

- will the WinSCP3 program allow me to use the command line prompt, or am I going to have to use a different program?

***If so, which one is the simplest? Or maybe I can run the command from the WHM?

Conrad #167709 11/04/2006 1:15 AM
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lightning vs a tourtose wink...

the dump will be saved in the directory that you run the command from.

it will save everything in one file.

it should error out if there is an error.

I'd do it from an ssh session.


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It is also very easy to restore from the command line as well. smile

Of course not everyone has ssh - but if you do take advantage smile

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Just tried making the backup and it seems to have gone through successfully... at least at first glance.

(Q1) It took under half a minute to get this done (as opposed to half a day via the CP), is that normal for a dump that "weighs" about 500 megs?

Also, in the Threads CP under database tools I see the following summary for my board:

Totals 958672 (rows) 532.88 MB (data) 111.07 MB (indexes)

(Q2) But the total size of the dump is 483MB when checking out the file's properties using WinSCP. Is the backup truly complete?

(Q3) On a side note, am I doing the right thing by downloading the dump in binary? Or should this be done in ASCII? (I dragged the file onto my desktop using WinSCP and it started a binary transfer)

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Yes its normal that a SQL Dump from the command line go incredibly fast, as it doens't get processed through apache or any php scripts.

the backup should be complete, not sure why the two would differ however... I've never had an SQL dump through command line not be complete.

Generally Binary mode is for graphics and the like; ASCII mode is generally for text.


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Gizmo #168040 11/10/2006 12:35 PM
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Is the ASCII thing definite, or maybe I should do both just in case? smile

Still wondering about the size difference between the dump file and the data shown in the Admin CP...

Is there a way to dump all tables separately?

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Download it in ASCII.

A database dump is not going to the same size as the database.

the database is a file or files that the database creates, in it's own format, to store the data.

A data dump is most certainly not that.

open the dump and read it. the first few lines describe a table, the next lines are composed of insert statements.

the sql dump file instructs mysql on how to create the table and insert the data, it is not an actual data file that the data base can use. It is nothing more than a file that the database would use to reconstruct from, but not to operate from.

Also remember that indices take space. A dump has no indices. Another thing to think about..... when you delete something from the database the database doesn't shrink. It does not give up that space. If you delete the equivalent of 100 megs of data out of the database it still doesn't shrink. Think about it, if you delete something that's in the middle of the table why would you want mysql to rewrite everything behind it in the table in order to regain that space?

That's what optimize does. Even if you do optimize your database the sql dump will nto be the same size as the actual mysql data table. They are apples and oranges.

Can you dump a table individually? Yes, read the documentation on mysql.com for the syntax.


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Thanks man.

OK, since the db/dump size is not going to be identical then I will assume that the server is giving me a complete backup.

If I dump the DB as instructed earlier in this thread (into a single file) then that's all I need to restore my database should anything bad happen, right? It'll restore all those tables from that single file?

What's the case with indeces? If the dump doesn't contain them, then what happens if I restore a DB using a dump? I get everything but the indexes? Could that pose a problem? Does the Admin CP backup copy the indeces if you do a backup that way?

Conrad #168052 11/10/2006 6:40 PM
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Oh, and I still can't believe that what used to take 10+ hours now takes under 30 seconds. It just seems that having command line access to the server makes an incredible difference. 10 hours or 30 secs... it's just unreal. smile

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that's what my wife says as well wink

Conrad #168060 11/10/2006 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Conrad
If I dump the DB as instructed earlier in this thread (into a single file) then that's all I need to restore my database should anything bad happen, right? It'll restore all those tables from that single file?

You are correct, you would use the following syntax to insert the tables into the database:
mysql -h localhost -uusername -ppassword database_name < dump_name.dump

And yes, I love using ssh to do all of my work on a server, it just saves time being able to edit files, create and upload dumps, etc.


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Gizmo #168064 11/10/2006 8:34 PM
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command line access makes many tasks a heck of a lot easier. It also makes it easier to make a fatal mistake. Do take care when you log in via command line.


The indices are created when the table is created, and populated as the data is inserted, just like when the database is functioning normally.


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lol yeh, be careful with the "rm" command ("rm -rf" more speficially)...


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Gizmo #168073 11/11/2006 2:34 AM
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I take it that's the Linux equivalent of "format c:"? wink

What do I have to add to the "mysqldump databasename -u username -p > database.dump" command line to make the dump in the directory right above the web root?

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It will create the dump where you issue the command.... Additionally you shoudl be able to do something like:
"mysqldump databasename -u username -p > /path/to/database.dump

As for RM, its quite simply "remove", -r is recursive meaning all files below the path, F means force (for directories) and / is your filesystem root...

So, "rm -rf /" is saying "remove all files, under directory / without asking my permission, and nuke the directories while you're at it" wink


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Gizmo #168169 11/12/2006 2:30 PM
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Thanks man.

I tried to open up the mysql dump in notepad just to see what's inside but it was too large (almost 500 megs).

Is there a different, freeware notepad-type program that would come in handy here?

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Just looking through the MySQL manual and have a few question about some settings.

1. Do I need to use "--set-charset" if my board runs on a specific charset and/or if I allow special characters for users' display names?

2. -q

Supposed to be useful when dumping large tables. Will I get exactly the same dump file regardless of whether I include the -q function? (just want to make two dumps to compare if everything went through correctly).

3. -v (verbose)

Will this churn out more info as the dump is being made? Anyone found this useful?

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use Wordpad to open it up.

I've never had to use any of the extended ptions from mysql, especially verbose lol...

as for the charset, i'd immagine your dump is created with the celltype of what is already in the db.

I get perfect dumps on the sites i maintain with the above code for note wink.


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Gizmo #168215 11/13/2006 12:53 PM
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Doesn't want to load up in wordpad either. Any other program I can use or am I screwed? smile

About the mysql dump, I looked through the manual but I'm still not sure how I can make the dump put each table in a separate file. Can someone please give me the correct command line for that?

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I've opened huge tables like that in ultraedit - tho I think the limiting factor is the amount of ram on your computer, not so much the program - a pc with 512mb of ram is gonna choke on any file larger than maybe 100mb or so - ram is already heavily in use for everything else smile


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Ultraedit is a very good option smile Also useful for searching files.

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Yeah, doesn't look likely that I will be able to view a 500 meg file with only 1 gb ram on my home system. wink

Going back to the mysql dump, does anyone know how to make the dump put each table in a separate file? Looked through the MySQL manual but still not clear on how to do this.


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check the documentation on mysql for table by table, but offhand I'd say mysqldump tablename.database --opt -u username -p > /parth/to/file

then once it's done, since you have command line access then try this

head filename
tail filename

You can use "more" or "less" as well.


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Hmm, apparently I just need to put the name of a given table right after the database name, will give it a shot.

Just have a question about a possible problem using MySQL 4.0.22. The manual states that before version 4.1.2 "out of range numeric valuessuch as -inf and inf, as well as NaN (not a number)values are dumped by mysqldump as Null. The significance of this behavor is that if you dump and restore the table, the new table has contents that differ from its original contents."

Would this affect a forum backup?

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I have never run into a problem with that. Not sure if Rick has.


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Nope, nothing I've ever ran into either.

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Originally Posted by Rick
Nope, nothing I've ever ran into either.

Ditto, and I've been using the command line sqldump command since MySQL3 (all the way up to MySQL5)


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Gizmo #173638 01/15/2007 2:52 PM
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Guys, about downloading a forum backup (mysql dump), every time I'm practically done downloading the file my ftp program shows this dumb message about a file like that already existing, with the usual "skip", "overwrite", etc. options popping up.

Why does this happen? The file was never downloaded previously...

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Possibly it timed out when downloading and the download tries to restart and wants to know if you want to continue the download (either by overwriting the old file, or some clients allow you to resume the download)


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There seem to be no interruptions, and I've tried like a dozen times. Everytime, and even using 3 different ftp programs, it still comes up with the usual skip/overwrite/etc. stuff even though the file is being downloaded for the very first time.

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Do your clients let you read the raw messages? One of them should say whats happening when the download starts.


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Have you tried temporarily renaming the download file?


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