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Yet, another OS War's thread... #174203 01/18/2007 5:01 AM
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ntdoc Offline OP
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ROFLMAO - Dude stop with the Holy OS Wars already. It's not becoming of a professional.

*Edited by Gizmo:*
I split this from "Attachment not found" as it got grossly offtopic.

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174208 01/18/2007 5:06 AM
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Umm it wasn't an OS war thign here, it's dead hard fact; In Linux using Apache I've never heard of an issue like this, and yeh I should have made it an Apache vs IIS statement vs a Linux vs IIS statement


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174213 01/18/2007 5:16 AM
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Just a theme you bring up often is all

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174216 01/18/2007 5:23 AM
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Just because I feel that Linux trumps Windows doesn't mean that I don't respect others for believing otherwise; here I was simply pointing out that I've never seen such an issue on an Apache Webserver and that it was likely an issue with IIS/Windows protecting filetypes from being downloaded...


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174219 01/18/2007 5:26 AM
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Oh I agree I think it is IIS fault as well, good or bad. Just have to track down why.

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174221 01/18/2007 5:31 AM
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Lol here I thought we where tlaking about the same darned thing the entire time, till i get yelled at :queue fake cry:


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174239 01/18/2007 9:20 AM
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let's face it - what OS did M$ use to host their websites for a few years? wink

BTW - I have servers both in Linux and Windows - so do not mind either smile

Re: Attachment not found [Re: Ian] #174317 01/18/2007 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ian
let's face it - what OS did M$ use to host their websites for a few years? wink
You know Ian, sometimes you say things that just make me.... absolutely adore you lol...

Originally Posted by Ian
BTW - I have servers both in Linux and Windows - so do not mind either smile
I have two home dev machines; one Windows and one Linux


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174343 01/18/2007 8:09 PM
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You mean isn't it awesome how one company with so many less years on the market can overtake another with so many more years on the market to become the new leader ?

Amazing how many of the large expensive applications have moved to the other side as well. Used to be they could/would only be run on VAX or Unix now they run on Windows. Just wish I'd have properly invested my money years ago then I wouldn't be here typing up another post. tongue

The Apache Web hosts dominate not due to technology but due to FREE OS and then CHARGE to use it.

[end os war] .... see what you made me go and do - yuck sick


If you love Linux great, If you love Windows great, If you love Macintosh great - just don't try to always be a convert-aholic evangilist, you don't make any money or points for it.

I like and use all of them. One just happens to pay my paycheck so I know more about it then the others. If one of the others was paying my pay check I'd know more about it.

I like to play new 3D games at times and the others don't play them so I play them on Windows, doesn't mean the others don't have cool great features either. That's why I have VMware to run the others.


.


Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174351 01/18/2007 8:23 PM
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"less years"? Unix has been around since the 60's; granted the Linux Kernel hasn't been around nearly as long, unix was still with us before M$ was a twinkle in bill gates' eye...

BTW, why do we keep argueing about this? We keep saying we're going to stop yet somehow we get back on the same track...

And actually, IMO, of using both IIS and Apache, Apache is a far superior and more customizable webserver, but that's my opinion, should you choose to have another opinion, that is your right wink.

You know, I don't like macs anymore... First they're their own OS, then they're built on BSD; so they're no more than an XWindows on prepriatary hardware... Then they decide to go the route of running on standard pc's using intel processors, so now they're officially no more than an xwindows on a *nix host... craziness... I'd still probably buy a mac though if i had the cash to blow on a random new toy hehe...



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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174356 01/18/2007 8:29 PM
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Quote:
less years"? Unix has been around since the 60's; granted the Linux Kernel hasn't been around nearly as long, unix was still with us before M$ was a twinkle in bill gates' eye...


Think you read it backward (or maybe I wrote it backward) I meant that yes Unix/Linux both have been around MUCH longer than Windows yet Windows now dominates the entire World, good or bad. I just wish I'd invested years ago.

LOL - Yes I do think Unix and Linux (for the most part) are superior to Windows in many things, but not all.

I use MAC 10.4 and have to support it so I don't like it either. Too much stuff is hidden from your control that it is a pain at times to support.


.

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174361 01/18/2007 8:37 PM
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lol i remember when panther just came out... I was working for Adobe and I had to set it up on my dev machine, it was rather an interesting time lol...

The new stuff is very different than what i was originally accustomed to, but then again the last time prior to that that i used a mac i was in HS lol...

and yeh I read it backwards wink... But keep in mind, M$ had much more to go with and larger partnerships to build on (such as ibm as a big partner); I've seen some documentaries and movies that ultimately show how they gained so much popularity, they're rather good watches...

I hear though that most Govt's are going the unix route now because M$ refuses to cater for them anymore, which means a lot of money savings on their part as they don't have to buy the expensive bulk business licenses for every new version of windows.

BTW, this brings up a question i asked before that I don't think got answered... is there anything in vista that is actually worth upgrading? I dont' think theres anything in XP that was worth upgrading from 2k lol.


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174363 01/18/2007 8:51 PM
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I answered you I'm sure. (not sure where the post is)

IMHO - No, not for the average user.

There is more candy and more security and more hand holding, but come on - for the average user or advanced user unless you have a ton of cash to spend on a new DirectX 10 video card (currently only Nvidia has one that I'm aware of and it's a $500 card) there just is not anything compelling to me to warrant the cost of the upgrade.

If you're buying a new computer and it comes on it okay but I'm not going to pay for it on my own. It also has much higher hardware requirements than XP.

XP had a few things that an average use would like and some that IT really likes. Doing WMI remote scripting is better in XP than 2000 (Vista will have more too, but not enough reason to update for me).

Go check out the top 10 reasons this site has for upgrading.
Most of it is marketing hype (imho)

http://ezinearticles.com/?Top-10-Reasons-to-Upgrade-to-Windows-Vista&id=403504

.

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174365 01/18/2007 8:56 PM
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Quote:
The Apache Web hosts dominate not due to technology but due to FREE OS and then CHARGE to use it.


Are you REALLY sure you want to stand with that?


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: David Dreezer] #174368 01/18/2007 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by David Dreezer
Are you REALLY sure you want to stand with that?
I love you dave :nod: lol...

NT:
Yeh I figured as much; the cost is insane, and the hw requirmenes are as well... my laptop qualifies, but it's way too anal for my liking lol... I have 8 new desktop pc's on their way (doing a bunch of repair stuff and drive checking for my moms church organization on 3, the rest are mine for parts) so I need to figure out what I'm going to do... Likely W2K and try to sell 'em, hadn't decided...

I'll check out th elink later.


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: David Dreezer] #174369 01/18/2007 9:12 PM
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Yes (I do think Apache is better) however if Windows and IIS were free it too would be out there with Host Providers as there are more people in the World with Windows Technical skills than there are with Unix/Linux. I'm talking about good skills, not just familiarity of the OS.

I've reviewed many candidates for IT with "Linux" skills and when our Unix/Linux guy put them through the paces - 90% of them were not what they thought they were. Plenty of Windows techs too that don't know much, so I actually have high praise for Linux techs that really are good.

It's cost as the big factor I think, not features. Many people that want to buy web space would want to buy windows but are turned away due to the higher costs. Not everyone out there is an IT wanna-be. They see Linux and are scared off not realizing that the control panel makes it so dang easy for them, but they go with it because the Windows offering is sky high.

No I don't think everyone would want it, or go with it, but I'm sure if it was the same cost or cheaper than the Linux/Apache version there would be a LOT more of them.

There are hundreds of millions of Windows users around the World that are comfortable with Windows and scared of Linux, so what do you think the average one would choose if cost was not a deciding factor?


.

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174371 01/18/2007 9:26 PM
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'eh with *nix guys you have several types.
1. Those who are what they are and charge the world, they know everything because they've had the time and money to be trained.
2. Those who're hobiests and know a great deal (like me! lol, a bit o' everything)
3. Those who ran through and chose "Everything" on the setup disk of a distro and just run xwindows and think they're the bees knees...

lol its funny with linux hosts; the cpanel makes things so dummed down you dont need any linux skill to use them... In fact, the only thing you need to know in most cases is FTP.

Now if you go to dedicated servers and VPS you need to know how to update system services, but that doesn't effect too many.

lol, daddy, can i scare the windows users?


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174372 01/18/2007 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Gizmo
lol, daddy, can i scare the windows users?


ROFL

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174528 01/19/2007 7:56 PM
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You seemingly missed or ignored my point, so let me forward it again. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, probably not. It was prettey tangential to the discussion anyway.

Based on the way you accented some of the words through capitalization you give the impression that you think it wrong that web hosts that have implemented Apache (and by extension an operating system that is free) should not charge for it.

I can further infer from the sentence that you think the reason that these Apache based webhosts dominate is entirely due to charging for something that they didn't pay for.

And that being able to so so is not due to the technology?

HUH?

Isn't it the technology, or more to the point, the Open Source hence free origination of the technology) that makes it free for the "Apache host" to use, allowing them to pass the savings on to their customers?

If it isn't the technology, albeit the origination of the technology, that allows that.... what is?

I totally think you cannot separate the technology and the price/cost of the technology. I'm really really interested in your expanding on your arguement to separate the two.

I'll repost your sentence with some different words emphasized to show you what I'm objecting to.

Quote:

The Apache Web hosts dominate not due to technology but due to FREE OS and then CHARGE to use it.



Let me be clear, I'm neither for nor against Open Source software. In general I find that most of it sucks and is not of the quality it would be had the author(s) needed to get a buck for it. But that's not my point.


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: David Dreezer] #174546 01/19/2007 8:18 PM
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Could you immagine what Apache would be if they got paid to develop it lol...


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: David Dreezer] #174557 01/19/2007 8:30 PM
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Quote:
If it isn't the technology, albeit the origination of the technology, that allows that.... what is?


Economics. I'm not saying it's wrong to charge for it, on the contrary all I'm saying is that if Windows was free as well there would be many more Windows host providers than there currently are. By saying the term technology I have never heard anyone of many people that have asked me to help them get a provider or set them up, etc... ask me what technology is better between Linux and Windows. They just don't know or care, all they want is a Website period and they don't care what platform runs it.
The only time they get worried is when I tell them more details and it runs on Linux - then you have to assure them that it is very easy to maintain and make changes just like the Windows they're used to.


This is exactly why I rarely get into this type of discussion. Too many people are fanatical about what OS they use and so it just drags on until it gets ugly. Not wanting that to happen here I think I'll end posting on this subject.

.

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174559 01/19/2007 8:31 PM
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awwe comeon, i like hearing the debates on why people like their os:(


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174939 01/21/2007 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gizmo
BTW, this brings up a question i asked before that I don't think got answered... is there anything in vista that is actually worth upgrading? I dont' think theres anything in XP that was worth upgrading from 2k lol.


Well the one MAJOR difference I neglected to mention is Anti Copy methods now introduced and enforced in Vista.

Vista now uses and enforces tools and methods to prevent you from copying Copyright material.

High Definition Video is one of the newly supported player methods but along with it comes tools to prevent you from copying it even if you have sotware that would do it Vista will step in and stop it.

I can see both sides of the coin but reason enough for me to stay with XP Pro.

.

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174941 01/22/2007 12:32 AM
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lol so they put copyright protection in the os? that's crazy... one reason i won't upgrade right there wink...


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: Gizmo] #174947 01/22/2007 1:59 AM
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Even tho I'll be getting the free "up"grade when it comes out, seems I won't be using it now... wink




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Re: Attachment not found [Re: jgeoff] #174953 01/22/2007 2:22 AM
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LOL - haven't heard this - but there are ways around anything - so fear no wink

Re: Attachment not found [Re: Ian] #174958 01/22/2007 2:46 AM
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I quite enjoy the ability to copy dvd's; backing up media I have purchased is a nessessity


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #174959 01/22/2007 2:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ntdoc

*Edited by Gizmo:*
I split this from "Attachment not found" as it got grossly offtopic.


Yeah, and now it's called "Attachment not found" in CFRM but "Yet, another OS War's thread..." in postlist. Confusing me! tongue wink


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: jgeoff] #174960 01/22/2007 2:48 AM
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good, you deserve to be confused wink

Re: Yet, another OS War's thread... [Re: ntdoc] #174961 01/22/2007 2:50 AM
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There. Maybe this'll work. tongue whistle


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Re: Yet, another OS War's thread... [Re: jgeoff] #174963 01/22/2007 2:51 AM
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Good.

This is why I'm not letting my members change subjects. wink


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Re: Yet, another OS War's thread... [Re: jgeoff] #174968 01/22/2007 4:33 AM
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what happens when you as admin need to change the subject?

Re: Yet, another OS War's thread... [Re: Ian] #174975 01/22/2007 4:52 AM
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un-hack the forum? lol


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Re: Yet, another OS War's thread... [Re: Ian] #174993 01/22/2007 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ian
what happens when you as admin need to change the subject?


Wait for Rick to make subject editing a CP option? laugh

FWIW - Maybe once or twice a year have I found the need to change a member's subject, so no big deal. Definitely worth avoiding the confusion (IMHO) of subjects changing in mid-thread. wink


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Re: Yet, another OS War's thread... [Re: jgeoff] #175005 01/22/2007 3:29 PM
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Ian Offline
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At the moment I have to often alter the subjects when they post such as

'did you know.........................'

because this then pushes the latest posts box very wide in the side bar frown

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #175013 01/22/2007 4:49 PM
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David Dreezer Offline
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Originally Posted by ntdoc
Quote:
If it isn't the technology, albeit the origination of the technology, that allows that.... what is?


Economics. I'm not saying it's wrong to charge for it, on the contrary all I'm saying is that if Windows was free as well there would be many more Windows host providers than there currently are. By saying the term technology I have never heard anyone of many people that have asked me to help them get a provider or set them up, etc... ask me what technology is better between Linux and Windows. They just don't know or care, all they want is a Website period and they don't care what platform runs it.
The only time they get worried is when I tell them more details and it runs on Linux - then you have to assure them that it is very easy to maintain and make changes just like the Windows they're used to.


This is exactly why I rarely get into this type of discussion. Too many people are fanatical about what OS they use and so it just drags on until it gets ugly. Not wanting that to happen here I think I'll end posting on this subject.

.


Oh, come on ntdoc. You're not doing a good job keeping up your end of the debate here wink

Economics. Can you be any more vague? You still didn't answer my point, either. Was that by design?

Quote:
This is exactly why I rarely get into this type of discussion. Too many people are fanatical about what OS they use and so it just drags on until it gets ugly. Not wanting that to happen here I think I'll end posting on this subject.


What part of this debate has anything to do with an OS? I couldn't care less about an OS. Best tool for the job is my feeling, and it's not always the same tool. Nope, I'm sumply choosing to debate with you on one particular sentence that you said, one that I don't necessarily agree or disagree with, frankly, but one that I think is very debatable.

Besides, I'm bummed that the Pats lost.


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: David Dreezer] #175016 01/22/2007 4:54 PM
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ntdoc Offline OP
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No debate. Agree to disagree. Sorry to disappoint.

Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #175017 01/22/2007 4:56 PM
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David Dreezer Offline
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awwwwwwwwww frown


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: David Dreezer] #175024 01/22/2007 5:35 PM
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jgeoff Offline
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*puts the popcorn away* :/ wink


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Re: Attachment not found [Re: ntdoc] #175061 01/22/2007 7:06 PM
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Gizmo Offline
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Originally Posted by ntdoc
No debate. Agree to disagree. Sorry to disappoint.
no fair, he'll fight with me but cour to dave... I have to learn that trick...


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