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Guest Permissions update : Zero's #254423
12/19/13 09:33 AM
12/19/13 09:33 AM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
This is Ref to Version : 7.5.6p2

Guest Permissions : Zero's
When updating the Group "Users" Permissions after hitting submit all values are zero ?

Control Panel >> Group Management >>
On the Left Find Guests (There should only be 1) >> Eyes Now over to the Right >> Under Edit Permissions (Click "Forum" ) >>> Forum Permissions.

I then opened "Can read topics" and made my selection.
When i hit submit this zero's all my choices from 1's & 0's all updated to Zero Only.

I only found out days later when a guest emailed why so many public topics now needed to be a registered member?
So I Checked and they were all Zero (Scratches head and Chin). Hummmmm.
So updated 65 forums again with my choices and hit submit to only see them Zero !!

I had to go into each forums permission individually to set the guest permission.

This is Ref to Version : 7.5.6p2
I don't fancy resetting all those permissions again so if anyone has a test forum running would be handy to know its not a bug that's slipped the net wink on the newer versions.


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Re: Guest Permissions update : Zero's [Re: Mark S] #254428
12/19/13 03:45 PM
12/19/13 03:45 PM
R
Ruben  Offline

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,952
Lutz,FL
There was a post on this issue a while back using 7.5.7 and the user just stated it was a confirmed bug.
No real details from him or SD or anybody.

Looking now!

Okay.
permissions

It seems to be the way you edit permissions.
I have never seen this myself.


Blue Man Group


There is no such thing as stupid questions. Just stupid answers
Re: Guest Permissions update : Zero's [Re: Mark S] #254433
12/20/13 04:22 AM
12/20/13 04:22 AM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
My Point being that if you shut down your public viewing occidentally then and money ads are no loger visible, your site is no longer indexable via the search engines. As i say if someone had not e-mailed me it could have been weeks before i started to scratch my head over it.

The above method is good for setting permissions when you dealing with groups over a lot of forums. (In my case 65) its easier to summarize.
I don't use the feature that often, and the other groups do update as expected. Only the "Guest" one resets to zero.

This is not the permissions on a file its the permissions of a Group and its access / privileges.

I will test it before i upgrade next year but this came to my attention only last week and wanted to pass it on.

wink


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Re: Guest Permissions update : Zero's [Re: Mark S] #255171
03/28/14 08:18 AM
03/28/14 08:18 AM
Daryl Fawcett  Offline
addict
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 596
Canada
Thank you for linking me here. smile

This is related to my problem, but worse!

Re: Guest Permissions update : Zero's [Re: Mark S] #255172
03/28/14 08:18 AM
03/28/14 08:18 AM
Daryl Fawcett  Offline
addict
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 596
Canada
Was your's ever resolved?

Re: Guest Permissions update : Zero's [Re: Mark S] #255176
03/28/14 12:30 PM
03/28/14 12:30 PM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
Nope

follow your thread

https://www.ubbcentral.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/255170/Re:_Some_of_the_Permission_Set#Post255170

smile


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256898
05/01/15 09:51 AM
05/01/15 09:51 AM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
7.5.8 Problem Repeated : Group permissions update

I have to stress this is going to be a hell of a job to check and clean up. Because im not sure of the cause ive will have to chaeck each of my 65 forums individually and not via the group permissions to get back to normal.

Group management >>> Forum >>> Select Group from Drop list.
The modification in each of my own custom groups

These Groups were modified at the time to show the Ad between posts 1 and 2.
Log files
30th Apr 2015 11:04am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 16
30th Apr 2015 11:02am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 15
30th Apr 2015 10:59am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 13
30th Apr 2015 10:58am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 12
30th Apr 2015 10:56am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 11
30th Apr 2015 10:55am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 10
30th Apr 2015 10:52am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 9
30th Apr 2015 10:50am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 8
30th Apr 2015 10:44am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 7
30th Apr 2015 10:43am GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 7

Group 9 Fixed (Via forum permissions)
30th Apr 2015 7:46pm 194.254 FORUM_PERMISSIONS 23

Group 7 Updated and Failed !! (Via Group Permissions)
1st May 2015 2:23pm GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 7
1st May 2015 2:21pm GROUP_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 7

I can reproduce this failing and not updating.
Its 1 variable but that's may be all you need as a starter.

Please see attached file :

I show the 2 Screens and there results, the Group Permissions and Forum Permissions.
I done this in Chrome and IE

The is a private forum set up for the UE Members Group.
If i update the settings in the Forum Permissions they stay as expected.

In the past i have had the "Guest Group" Zero out, and ive not used this feature since,
this time i needed to update all the Custom Groups i have to see the Ads between 1 and 2.
And forgot about this dam problem.

Please guys give this the attention it deservers, its probably not a common feature that is used but it can cause a hell of a lot of damage. As it could allow access when it should be denied also.

p.s. Group 7 is a sub forum.

Attached Files group-permissions-fail.JPG

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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256899
05/01/15 10:19 AM
05/01/15 10:19 AM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
I cant say for sure what else is zeroed with out more testing but it does seem to cross over to other groups or there is a bug in each group.


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256901
05/01/15 01:46 PM
05/01/15 01:46 PM
R
Ruben  Offline

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,952
Lutz,FL
Without even looking into this.
I can only assume it is the permissions with the greater than less than settings where a member is in multiple groups.
And the -1 does not work due to a logical compare to -1, 0 and 1.
It has caused some heartache for me in the past.
Usually most of it comes from a new site user where they just start using it.
And to fix most of it , not all . Means completely restructuring the groups.
Which after a while on a large board nobody wants to go through it all.


Blue Man Group


There is no such thing as stupid questions. Just stupid answers
Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256902
05/01/15 02:03 PM
05/01/15 02:03 PM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
Hi Ruben,
look again, its not about the -1 and a permission not working, my image above it shows how its not been written (Saved) correctly via Group Permissions update, ive entered a value and its not being saved. It could be this one parameter in the group update that's knocking them all out.

If you do the test the other way via the forum permissions then it works as in saves correctly and is then visible in the group permissions.

There is a BIG bug in Group permissions.
Previously i have had it zero out all the permissions in the "user" group. There were no forums visible to visitors.
And it was only 2 wks later i got an email saying why the change.

The problem is Groups can be Subscriptions too.
A member may be a members of a group with a subscription attached that's when it gets messy.
As you may be allowing access / privileges that a "member" does not have.

When creating new groups the Group update is like gold dust for system wide tweaks. But it has the potential to zero out other groups, groups your not even dealing with. Fortunately i have documented what's happened, but i cant play too much a live forum as the consequence's could be start again.

Unless you have Subscriptions running, with groups then you may only be dealing with say 1 private forum.
But i have groups with permissions across the board for example more upload allowance with images.
its easy to update that group in one click in group permissions, but if i want do it forum by forum i have 65 forums.

That's why i say

Its a Powerful Feature,
Not many use it,
but if it goes wrong its a big big mess if you have a few system wide groups.

Its a ticking time bomb for any one with groups.


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256903
05/01/15 03:20 PM
05/01/15 03:20 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
I suspect that this is an issue with the "max_input_vars" setting on the server; please see my comment to your post at UBBDev for instructions to test.

Additionally, there is an entry on Wiki: Issues with the PHP 'max_input_vars' Setting


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256904
05/01/15 05:02 PM
05/01/15 05:02 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
Trying to keep everything in ONE place; here is the discussion thus far:
Originally Posted by Gizmo
Mark, what's the value of your servers "max_input_vars" setting?

It's possible, with a lot of forums, that your reaching this setting and that's why things are zero'ing out. Try inserting "php_value max_input_vars 5000" into a .htaccess file under your UBB.threads install and check your phpinfo output to see if your host allows you to offset, and if so try to recreate this bug.

I have an entry on the Wiki for this: Issues with the PHP 'max_input_vars' Setting


Originally Posted by Mark_S
Ok for the record i'm sitting on max_input_vars 1000 1000
Give me a day or two and i will do as you say and get back to you.
Fingers crossed smile


Originally Posted by Mark_S
max_input_vars 5000 5000
Yes checked after checking php ini after restart of httpd service.

FAIL

using the Group Permissions updating the image size to a new value (Submit) value is now zero !

From what i can tell from the Gropu Permissions these have changed to zero

Can read topics
Can reply to existing topics
Maximum size of file attachments
Can create Polls in Replies
Can post using Markup/UBBCode

There the ones I know had a value and have changed to zero.

Others permissions have kept there settings view ad island and a nother one or two.
But mainly in this group its 1 members forum so alot of the permissions were zero to start with.

Hope that helps.


Originally Posted by Mark_S
This also seemed to be a similar pattern from what was being reported back to me from the other groups i updated.

Can read topics
Can reply to existing topics
Maximum size of file attachments
Can create Polls in Replies
Can post using Markup/UBBCode

The first bit of feedback was I can no longer read a topic in X forum.

Using the Group permissions things fail.
and some permissions are zero.


Originally Posted by Mark_S
I thought Gizmo wanted me to comment on this thread,
Originally Posted by Gizmo_On_UbbCentral
I suspect that this is an issue with the "max_input_vars" setting on the server; please see my comment to your post at UBBDev for instructions to test.

Additionally, there is an entry on Wiki: Issues with the PHP 'max_input_vars' Setting


Ok going back to UBBCentral Click me


Originally Posted by Gizmo
Where does the FAIL come in? Is your phpinfo showing a value of 5k and it still set things 0?

FWIW, I want all replies in one place, hopping back and forth is just going to derail the issue further...


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Gizmo] #256905
05/01/15 05:05 PM
05/01/15 05:05 PM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
Ive been sent back over to this forum blush

Originally Posted by Gizmo_On_UBBDEV
Mark, what's the value of your servers "max_input_vars" setting?

It's possible, with a lot of forums, that your reaching this setting and that's why things are zero'ing out. Try inserting "php_value max_input_vars 5000" into a .htaccess file under your UBB.threads install and check your phpinfo output to see if your host allows you to offset, and if so try to recreate this bug.

I have an entry on the Wiki for this: Issues with the PHP 'max_input_vars' Setting

It was 1,000 but updated it to 5,000 as you say.

Originally Posted by id242_On_UBBDEV
Mark,

Work through with Gizmo, since the problem you're referring to is within your server settings.

Expanding on what Gizmo mentioned above, the input vars should be no less than: "total number of forums you have" x "number of permissions on that page" + "the other group_forumperms.php page strings" (IIRC, that number is 4)

ie; if you have 104 forums, multiply that by 26 and then add 4.
Your vars setting should be at least 2708.
Setting it to 5000 should resolve your issue.

And you should probably also clear your browser cache, just to be safe smile


65 Enabled Forums

max_input_vars 5000 5000
Yes checked after checking php ini after restart of httpd service.

FAIL
Meaing the increase did not resolve the problem (No Change)
using the Group Permissions updating the image size to a new value (Submit) value is now zero !

From what i can tell from the Group Permissions these have changed to zero

Can read topics
Can reply to existing topics
Maximum size of file attachments
Can create Polls in Replies
Can post using Markup/UBBCode

There the ones I know had a value and have changed to zero.

Others permissions have kept there settings view ad island and a nother one or two.
But mainly in this group its 1 members forum so alot of the permissions were zero to start with.

Hope that helps.

* Re run the Test in IE clearing all history cookies and cache all.
Same result as previous (At least its constant).

Last edited by Mark S; 05/01/15 05:08 PM.

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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256906
05/01/15 05:09 PM
05/01/15 05:09 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
Does your phpinfo page display any variables for:
suhosin.get.max_vars
suhosin.post.max_vars
suhosin.request.max_vars


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256907
05/01/15 05:13 PM
05/01/15 05:13 PM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
suhosin.get.max_vars 100 100
suhosin.post.max_vars 1000 1000
suhosin.request.max_vars 1000 1000


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256908
05/01/15 05:13 PM
05/01/15 05:13 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
Originally Posted by Mark S
suhosin.get.max_vars 100 100
suhosin.post.max_vars 1000 1000
suhosin.request.max_vars 1000 1000


Theres your problem.


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256909
05/01/15 05:14 PM
05/01/15 05:14 PM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
I love a quiz lol


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256910
05/01/15 05:14 PM
05/01/15 05:14 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
Insert the following into your .htaccess:
Code
# Let's change some configuration settings #
php_value max_input_vars 5000
php_value suhosin.get.max_vars 5000
php_value suhosin.post.max_vars 5000
php_value suhosin.request.max_vars 5000


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256911
05/01/15 05:15 PM
05/01/15 05:15 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
I love pointing out how horrible a default configuration of suhosin can be wink...


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256912
05/01/15 05:17 PM
05/01/15 05:17 PM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
Its even better when its your own forum as the problem lol

ok give me 20 mins to do and test smile


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256913
05/01/15 05:20 PM
05/01/15 05:20 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
This is why I spent a week working on the suhosin detection in the new Control Panel; lol.


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256914
05/01/15 05:36 PM
05/01/15 05:36 PM
Mark S  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,722
Liverpool : England : UK
Gizmo you got to love members like me ??


because I make you look good when you get it right smile

You got it right its holding the value now smile smile smile smile smile smile

Your help as always appreciated Thank You.


i couldn't get the htaccess file to work ?? (So went into the php.ini
I need to play a bit, does the htaccess file sit in the same directory as ubbthreads.php ??


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256915
05/01/15 06:24 PM
05/01/15 06:24 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
Your "AllowOverride" setting (in your Apache configuration) has to allow your sites to override values, so if it does not it's probably setup to not allow it at all. Generally your .htaccess file would go in your web root.

And no, figuring out the issues that where over the head of previous developers is what I love, because the answer to the problem was what I first said it was years ago tongue.


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Re: Group Permissions update : Zero's Group [Re: Mark S] #256916
05/01/15 06:31 PM
05/01/15 06:31 PM
Gizmo  Offline
UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,013
Portland, OR; USA
I've been busy rewriting a configuration test script, based off of the one that xenforo supplies; it'll check for limited values for suhosin and some webserver configurations. This file will be available at wiki when I'm done with it and will be useful for users experiencing several issues.

Additionally, some checks added in 7.5.9 and (refined in) 7.6.0 will also provide some information (your particular issue would have triggered the warning in the 7.5.9 control panel)


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