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I should have looked much closer on the vote on blogs vs ui. Looking back through that this weekend and the reason blogs won out is 2 particular users that had multiple accounts and voted quite a few times.

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count the chads.... LOL

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Vote early, and vote often!

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Cheaters,
Rick I guess you have committed yourself to blogs.
Don't want to start a blog/ui war wink


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I didn't see the vote, but I would have gone with UI personally. Blogs = nice to have but the new UI is so important that I would say it is a need to have item. imho smile

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Originally Posted by Rick
I should have looked much closer on the vote on blogs vs ui. Looking back through that this weekend and the reason blogs won out is 2 particular users that had multiple accounts and voted quite a few times.


Shame that people did that - name and shame wink


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I call for a revote... mainly becasue blogs would be so easy to impliment, and ui will be a chore...


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Revote!

How can I tell if my users have multiple accounts?
It's not just down to IP is it?

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revote!!!!

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Originally Posted by driv
How can I tell if my users have multiple accounts?
It's not just down to IP is it?


There used to be a mod way back in the day that read the cookies on your machine to see if you had a cookie for a different account than the one you are logged on with.

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If Rick is using that mod here it should be incorporated into the final product. It has been around a long time now anyways.

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Im sure he has something better, lol. If not I sure would like to see it built in wink

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Those calling for a revote, it would really take too long to revote all over again. I will say that I won't do a vote again as it just has too many problems that go along with it.

That all being said. Looking at true numbers on the vote, taking out all the actual duplicate voters on both sides, the UI overhaul really won by a landslide. How much of a landslide? 62-8. Not even close.

So, what I'm going to do is look at exactly where we are at. I've had a couple people helping on this version (given very specific tasks unlike the free-for-all that was 7.3 :D). We might end up just shelving blogs and finish off some of the things being worked on so we can get moving on the UI update.

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shelving blogs frown frown

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I'm not sure yet. I kinda opened up a can of worms with the voting thing stating that I'd follow what everyone wanted. Initially I thought I was doing that, but it turns out I wasn't after looking at the actual votes. If we're really close to having them finished, then obviously it doesn't make much sense to stop now and we'll finish it out. If they still need a lot of development work, then they probably will be put off.

I'll know more a bit later. Like I said, I definitely won't be doing this again. Either way, it just sets people up for disappointment which is the last thing I wanted.

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Name some names of those with multiple login names. I'm sure if everyone knew who they are it most likely explain a lot in many different threads on the board.

Also most every community that I have ever been to strictly prohibit multiple log in accounts and if caught loose all accounts in the community forever.

Such activity can and usually kills a community in due time. I have seen this happen to many times all across the internet. One of the largest sites that allowed this was Excite Virtual Places community. It is gone now but was destroyed by a handful of users with many many log in names. That community had tens of thousands of registered legit users.

I wouldn't let it happen here for several reasons. I will mention a few. If you announced the Blogs or the UI won and then said you found out that some user(s) with multiple login names fixed the count then change to a different out come from your original announcement you can loose legit good customers from one or both sides of the fence.

Now you mentioned the shelving of the blogs, maybe, and I want blogs as some others that may not even have voted.... that could make those users angry and either no longer update or extend their licenses and so on.

Now I know large corporations have all kinds of money and those that want blogs as so small that it wouldn't hurt your company any but hey that's the way it is, people go where they see things that are gunna happen for them. Take that away and oh well.

Do what you want, I will wait and see if your future products meet my needs. I have 3 licenses.

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Oh, I for got to mention my one site does over a million page views per month. That's a lot of advertisement for your software on the bottom of every page.

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While I personally voted for UI first, I think not doing blogs for 7.5 will be bad. Putting the vote in place was already a break of the promise for blogs first, and pulling that promise again, well...


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You're not really saying anything I don't already know wink Those that did the multiple vote thing have already been removed. They weren't active posters really, but not going to name names.

Like I said, I know this is a no-win situation where not everyone is going to be happy. What the majority of current customers are looking for has always been what has pushed the development. We've never sat down and really worried about what's going to attract new customers. If the majority of current customers are happy, then we're doing our job.

From the initial poll results, I thought we were sticking with that. Obviously not. Sure not everyone that has a license voted, not even a small fraction. So the poll was never a 100% certain representation of what everyone wanted, however it's a decent indication, and when one has over 10 times the votes of the other, that's a pretty good sampling.

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Enough said.


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I've announced to my Members Blogs are in the next Update
for the second time.

Who should look the fool ?


Members of our forum waited and waited and waited while the
backend of permissions was developed. And when it all came
on line they got in return for the wait not too much in the way of new features.

Blogs at least give them something new to play with,
What's new for the members with the UI ?
The way it looks WOW
by my reckoning they have been waiting an awful long time
for not much in the way of "MEMBERS" Features.


Stick to what you have said Rick.
You know it makes sense.

When i cock it up i stick to my word.

Ahhhh the joy's of Development. frown


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Where I believe it's bad place to reg accounts to skew a vote, i don't think calling people out on a support forum is really a good thing...

I do however want blogs, but i feel the UI overhaul is more important at this juncture...

Additionally, Rick, if you need any help with anything I can do, just let me know, always available (Well, during the evenings hehe).


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Totally understand Mark. The fool part is on me. I am trying to stick to my word since I was the one that did the vote and said I'd go with the what the majority wanted, only to realize that I wasn't working on wasn't what the majority wanted.

As for the UI update only being how it looks. Not in the least. With the UI update the users will actually get a bunch of new things as well that we haven't been able to do with the current system, including the entire rewrite of the "My Stuff" area.

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I was in the same boat Mark.

I'm to the point that if my members want something I will tell them to just come here, register, and ask repeatedly for it till it happens. Getting tired of looking bad.

o\Oh yeah Mark, gave you a 5 star rating on my vote.

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The best way is to tell them it will be in a future upgrade and not give them a deadline, then you wont look bad. You never give them a set time as it almost never will happen in the time frame you tell them no matter who is doing what or where you are. Things come up all the time that will cause delays. Personally it is the smartest thing to get the UI fixed before blogs so you wont have to back pedal and redo the blogs after the UI gets done because code has changed and now full of cruft.

Its unfortunate that those users who voted more did this. This whole community here should work together as eventually we are all after the same goal, to have the best software. Deception is no way to go about that.

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It is quite unfortunate that a user would create a bunch of disposable accounts to skew the results.

Perhaps a feature that can be added would be moderator/administrator editing of polls, where a moderator or an administrator can edit a poll's options or can delete spam votes.

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Originally Posted by Rick
As for the UI update only being how it looks. Not in the least. With the UI update the users will actually get a bunch of new things as well that we haven't been able to do with the current system, including the entire rewrite of the "My Stuff" area.


For instance?
I say that because that wont sway me to hold out? (Like i have a choice? )

OUR MEMBERS
I'm always going to fight the corner for the user / member.
I do think over the last 6-9 months they have had a raw deal,
give them some stuff to play with. There's probably half a dozen
mods over at dev that could come over.

#193800 - Sat Aug 04 2007 03:37 PM Re: Personal blog
Originally Posted by Rick
This will be coming. Doubtful in 7.3, but definitely by 7.4. As is the case with most new features like this it probably won't start out with everything under the sun like a true blogging system, but we'll try to get the basics in like we did with the photo gallery, that we can expand on.


#184540 - Tue May 22 2007 12:24 AM
Originally Posted by Rick
Originally Posted by Mark S
Was the payment structure being built into 7.2 ?

So that would be

Gallery
Blog
Payment options?

Just curious as they have been mentioned in the past. wink

Figured I'd answer this here. I was going to put in a bit more, Payment options and possibly the blog, but since I'm trying to keep the releases fairly quick, I probably won't squeeze those in. The gallery feature took a while and also still trying to work on importers as well.

I'll probably schedule the payment and blog features for 7.3, and focus on getting some smaller things into 7.2 so we can get into a private beta release sometime in the short term.


#166094 - Sat Oct 14 2006 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Rick
lol. Basically I say the next version or two on some of these is because I don't know what's going to make it into the next version or two exactly. The big ticket things at this point would be: some sort of captcha, photo gallery forums, user blogs and payment processing (paypal at the minimum). Sprinkle those in with all the smaller things that need to be done, and you get my point. I don't want to be a year in between releases, rather would like to have at least a couple feature releases per year. So it's pick and choose which ones get in.


Summary
As you can see we have had on the table since 2006 Blogs.
We have been told probably in a version or two and then
version 7.3 ?? But defiantly 7.4 (in 2007)

Any ways
Its up to you the developer Rick.
My Members only have My voice and i have there replies,
I know that not one to the best of my knowledge has asked
for a fresher looking forum. I do know there talking about
face book and blogs most of the time, and the times ive
mentioned that blogs are coming i have a positive response.

Ive threw the Blog Quotes in for anyone wondering why were
going on and on about them, well seeing that we have been
asking since 2006 and promised in 2007 how many other reasons
will be the reason why its not this time around.

Rick -
If you were to tell me that its a ball ache to Blog before UI
then fine, i cant get inside your head, but i can understand.
Your doing a fine job, you truly are, but keep us in the loop
and you will see we will follow like sheep and support you all
the more. I watch Gizmo's comments as i think he sees it through development eyes too, understanding the difficulties you
have. Gizmo's changed his mind and going UI but what does he know that we don't know? What is the definitive list of benefits?


I think ive said as much as i want to say now,
this step forward IMO has been a right cock up.
But i will be here tomorrow supporting you as normal wink


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2006 blogs, oh wait blogs in 2007 and defiantly by 7.4, oh wait a minute it's 2009.

Holy crap, by this schedule we should actually see blogs by say 2014.

Lets just say forget the blogs. Why keep waiting for something I thought we were getting a while back. Yes I bought a 3rd license in anticipation that the blogs would be here in 7.4 but hey. Oh well. Wife thinks I spend money like it's going out of style anyway so I will just keep upgrading my licenses and wait for the blogs.

Yeah I'm a little mad. If my company was a corporation I could get away with promises like that every year too for a while.

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I understand the frustration and needing to vent. I've been doing this for long enough, I know when things don't go as planned what's to be expected.

Some things have been promised for quite a while, going back further than when blogs even came into the picture. This is why normally I didn't say too much about what was coming each version until development actually started since things change all the time. That's why I probably am not going to let on too much with the UI update because if I say something and it doesn't get in, then we're back in the same boat. Because some things have been a bit slow, this is why we have a few people working on things now.

I didn't hide the fact that from a programming standpoint it really made no sense to write the blogs, only to end up needing to rewrite them when we redo the UI. Heck, I even mentioned at one point that the blogs could probably go in at the same time as the rewrite since the whole My Stuff area is going to be redone anyways. That was the whole reasoning behind the poll in the first place.

When we first mentioned blogs, I really didn't think we'd need to be redoing the UI anytime soon, wasn't even in the big picture as I thought what we had would hold out for much longer than it has. Since the UI update became a pressing issue, it's kinda thrown a lot of things out of whack that I would have rather done before.

Anyways, not much more I can say. I'll eventually probably split all of this off into it's own topic. Hopefully everyone understands that I'm not doing this just to cause a stir. Something I started out of good intentions was thrown a curveball by a couple people, kind of like a rigged election.

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do both laugh

/me will help

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Well, I think those who voted honestly such as my self were under the impression that we actually had a voice.

I'm a small company as you had mentioned a while back. I'm not a big corporation like you are. I'm sure you had seen my crappy equipment too in the photo gallery but I will tell you this.

When I say I'm going to do something I do it. All that equipment you see there was not done over years, that was done in 4 months, out of my pocket by necessity. I promised my community more space, photo upload ability, more bandwidth, and a better site, I delivered 5 months ahead of schedule. I had no bank loans, no investors, no help, and no plan to fall back on. I promised, said I would do it and I did it.

Now to tell you something on a more personal note I charge nothing to all of my communities, I put up ad banners to try to recoup some of my expenses, I had placed a donation button on my site as a few members asked for it to help me defray the cost of the community. I did not want to do that.

I work 4 jobs, support my disabled wife, and fully support my home with just my income, but still a man of my word. I don't make excuses of any kind I just make it happen. I'm a redneck and we consider our word spoken as a contract.

I'm not wealthy and getting tired of thinking of how much more I will have to spend to deliver what I was led to believe I would have at a certain time.

Yes I am angry, you and others are most likely tired of hearing me rant, perhaps I may get banned from here yet, I just really am tired of things said they will be delivered by many companies not just yours. I feel when I see the corp or incorp on a name how much of the shaft am I going to get. It always appears that way.

I'm a one man company and drove 215 one way miles to a customer to fix his internet connection so he could see his web site properly. That's the way I do business. I did it as I said to him on the phone, look if you can't get it right while talking to me on the phone I will personally drive out there and fix it for you. I did. He was happy, he is a customer for life.

I hate to sound like a bad dream but hey, This is the way I deal with my customers when I say it will be done.

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The thing is, I'm trying to be a man of my word. I put up the poll asking people what they wanted the focus to be for the next version. I gave my reasoning for the poll, but I said whatever the majority wanted that's what we'd work on.

Closed the poll and blogs won out. Had some time working on a few things I was going to put into 7.5 so started looking at poll results here and noticed the trend. Like I said, the actual final vote count was 62-8. 62 unique people called for the UI rewrite, 8 for blogs.

So I'm certainly not doing this thinking, hey this will be fun, let's switch direction and cause a big stink. 62 people wanted the UI to be done first and believe me I've heard their complaints via PM and via email when it wasn't going to be done. I told them the same thing I'm saying now in that I'd stick to my word and go with what the majority wanted, only to find out that wasn't what the majority wanted.

Hindsight, I should have kept my mouth shut about the skewed poll results. However, I'm an honest person so I was up front with everyone about it and posted what happened.

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Originally Posted by Sirdude
do both laugh

/me will help

That was my original intention when I started thinking about the UI update. Not just going to throw a new face on it and call it good. I think the misconeption people are getting is all the UI update is going to be is just a change in the look. It's going to be a lot more than that and there is no reason why the blogs can't go in at the same time.

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I understand your position I really do.

My point is that long before you even mentioned the UI upgrade or overhaul you had talked of the blogs as Mark had posted and I as well a while back during the voting thing or just right before.

My big problem is that the Blogs were slated for 7.4

Then after 7.4 came out then talk of the UI update and pushing the blogs back.

Then the vote.

Now this mess.

I'm totally unhappy with the people who tried to fix the vote. I do not know who they are but the point remains that the blogs were slated long before the UI update.

No talk of a UI update any time up till the last few months were seen by me. I'm sure they were not posted anywhere before that.

My gripe is that I was under the impression that the blogs were coming in the 7.4 series. I waited to make sure when I purchased the 3rd license it would cover that time span so I could get one community with the blogs and then renew the other 2 licenses. Yes I'm also honest I could have downloaded on one license and installed on 3 sites as I have 3 licenses.

Do you see my point?

Would you be angry?

Money don't grow on trees around here.

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And I totally understand where you're coming from as well. Honestly, 7.4 as it was, was never supposed to even come out. 7.3 had too many hands in the cookie jar and it took way to long to get things working properly. So 7.4 was released which was many bug fixes and some small features thrown in, which weren't really supposed to be added either but needed to have some substance with the release.

The need for the UI rewrite surfaced in beta testing during the 7.3 development. You can see portions of the need for it in the My Stuff area now. Sirdude and I tried to work through it the best we could, but it's still not quite right and some of the classes and tables are fudged to make it look the best it can.

Not going to hide the fact that the UI update is a big deal, and it's going to take awhile, but like I replied to Sirdude there is no reason why we can't put the blogs in at the same time and do them properly.

We'll still end up with a 7.5 release that will have the changes we have so far and probably a few other things and fixes in place.

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Time will tell.

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Can i just ask if its going to be a while then cant
you bring some of the good idea's from DEV into play,
after all someone has done the coding for you.

I mean making it stock,
we love the stuff over there, but dancing around it while
we upgrade is a pain, get more of the stuff in as stock.

Then as your Doing the UI and Blogs at least there is something
new to work with.

I'm not sure how many could actually put up with another
wait like the re-write with the permissions and i should add (Working Permissions).

The Polls
I think its safe to say you can see why i don't use polls
too often on our own forums? As there open to abuse.
Maybe they need a look at too wink (Lessons learned n all).


And for the life of me i still can not see why
we cant have Notifies all in one place and that's online.

If i'm viewing my forums i can act.
What's the point if i read an e-mail and cant view my forums? (Work restrictions).

We should be able to manage everything from the one place.
Not e-mail says this and the forum say nothing.
Its the only thing in the system that doesn't get listed,
but yet its one of the most important things to monitor.

I can watch a Forum
I can watch a Topic
I can watch a User

and i can see every post that falls under a watch " "
I can see when someone has sent me a pm.
But i cant tell when someone has Notified us of a post?

How crazy is that?

It can be done Custom Moderators Nofiy
I doubt it will work for 7.4 but there yu go.



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? I get post notifications from here already, not sure what you mean.


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Originally Posted by gliderdad


Thanks mate - did that and it works well smile

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