Yeah, that makes sense but it is more fussing than I wanted to get into. I use common PHP header and footer files for all of my site pages. The header actually forms the top header and the left column where I have all of my site navigation, advertising and so forth. I could achieve the same thing by copying the header and footer into the UBB HTML includes but since the wrapper wont follow I decided to just pull over the items in my header into a few custom islands and place them all in the left column. It comes out basically the same except I have the breadcrumbs and forum navigation running completely across the top of the forum layout so it is *almost* identical to the rest of the site. I am getting used to it. Besides, I am still diggin my new site design and rounded corners - starting a new style and wrapper from scratch takes time to get right, or at least the way you want it. Thanx for the advice, I may still try it after I update UBB.
