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Don't know if this is a bug or not, but since 7.1, my Cached Permission table has huge overhead every day. After 24 hours, it had 725.8 KiB of overhead. The table itself is less than 4.1 MiB.

Is this normal? None of my other tables generate nearly as much overhead.

Rick


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Editing my post. I thought we converted this to a memory table, but I was wrong. It will be a bit large depending on how many users you have online at one time, as it holds their permission set to each forum in this table.

Last edited by Rick; 02/28/2007 3:01 PM.
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Rick:

It is orders of magnitude bigger. Here's this morning's info:



Table Action Records Type Collation Size Overhead
ubbt_ADDRESS_BOOK 4,603 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 87.5 KiB -
ubbt_ADMIN_SEARCHES 2 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.3 KiB 68 B
ubbt_ANNOUNCEMENTS 28 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.5 KiB -
ubbt_BANNED_EMAILS 29 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.7 KiB -
ubbt_BANNED_HOSTS 89 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.7 KiB -
ubbt_BANNED_USERS 92 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 3.8 KiB -
ubbt_CACHE 2 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.1 KiB -
ubbt_CACHED_PERMISSIONS 602 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 3.4 MiB 844.0 KiB
ubbt_CALENDAR_EVENTS 321 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 44.4 KiB -
ubbt_CAPTCHA 0 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.0 KiB -
ubbt_CATEGORIES 9 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 4.4 KiB -
ubbt_CENSOR_LIST 39 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.8 KiB -
ubbt_DISPLAY_NAMES 0 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.0 KiB 24 B
ubbt_FILES 7,103 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 586.2 KiB -
ubbt_FORUMS 64 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 16.1 KiB 40 B
ubbt_FORUM_LAST_VISIT 28,981 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 774.9 KiB -
ubbt_FORUM_PERMISSIONS 442 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 16.6 KiB -
ubbt_GRAEMLINS 18 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 3.7 KiB -
ubbt_GROUPS 7 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.1 KiB -
ubbt_IMPORT_MAP 1,230,151 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 64.8 MiB -
ubbt_LANGUAGES 1 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.0 KiB -
ubbt_MAILER 0 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.0 KiB -
ubbt_MEMBER_SEARCHES 1 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.1 KiB -
ubbt_MODERATORS 190 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 8.7 KiB -
ubbt_MODERATOR_NOTIFICATIONS 13 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.1 KiB -
ubbt_MODERATOR_PERMISSIONS 3 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.0 KiB -
ubbt_ONLINE 509 HEAP latin1_swedish_ci 6.3 MiB 184.8 KiB
ubbt_POINTER_DELETE 0 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.0 KiB -
ubbt_POLL_DATA 26 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 6.9 KiB -
ubbt_POLL_OPTIONS 171 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 11.6 KiB -
ubbt_POLL_VOTES 2,874 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 188.8 KiB -
ubbt_PORTAL_BOXES 24 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.9 KiB 160 B
ubbt_POSTS 1,279,422 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.5 GiB -
ubbt_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_POSTS 75,062 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 61.4 MiB -
ubbt_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_TOPICS 63,539 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 3.5 MiB 352 B
ubbt_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_USERS 92,981 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 3.3 MiB 1.2 KiB
ubbt_RATINGS 0 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.0 KiB -
ubbt_REGISTRATION_FIELDS 26 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 3.6 KiB -
ubbt_RESERVED_NAMES 1 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.0 KiB -
ubbt_RSS_FEEDS 62 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 6.9 KiB -
ubbt_SAVED_QUERIES 0 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.0 KiB -
ubbt_SEARCH_AGENTS 1 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.2 KiB -
ubbt_SEARCH_RESULTS 293 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 821.6 KiB 33.0 KiB
ubbt_SHOUT_BOX 30 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 5.0 KiB -
ubbt_STYLES 3 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 29.7 KiB -
ubbt_TOPICS 115,072 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 18.7 MiB -
ubbt_TOPIC_VIEWS 3 HEAP latin1_swedish_ci 6.4 MiB -
ubbt_USERS 14,008 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 3.2 MiB -
ubbt_USER_DATA 14,016 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 605.8 KiB 20 B
ubbt_USER_GROUPS 14,062 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 294.6 KiB -
ubbt_USER_NOTES 8 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.2 KiB -
ubbt_USER_PROFILE 14,016 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 3.2 MiB -
ubbt_USER_TITLES 7 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 2.2 KiB -
ubbt_VERSION 1 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.0 KiB -
ubbt_WATCH_LISTS 1,182 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 55.1 KiB -
55 table(s) Sum 2,960,189 MyISAM latin1_swedish_ci 1.7 GiB 1.0 MiB


If this is normal, I'll be optimizing overhead daily, I think. I just want to make sure my numbers jive with what you expect to see.

We max out at about 600-800 users online at one time, with 5000 or so uniques a day.

As always, thanks for the help.

Rick Bin


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Those aren't unusually large numbers, your total overhead for your tables is 1 megabyte while your tables are 1.7 gigabytes - about 0.006%.

Cached permissions are 3.4 megabytes with 844.0 kilobytes as overhead, larger than average but still not huge.

I optimize every couple weeks right before I make a backup smile


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What tables do you guys optimize frequently? Is it just the POSTS one? Or do you run a command which optimizes all tables?

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Allen:

Roger that.

Just to make sure I have communicated clearly:

The 725.8 KiB of overhead I reported in my first post, at 8:35 pm yesterday, was optimized immediately at that time.

This morning, I had a brand new 844 KiB that generated overnight.

Two weeks??? Holy smokes!

I will continue to optimize daily, unless there is a good reason not to.

Thanks for the advice!!

Rick


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I optimize monthly, just before my critical backups; additionally, I optimize all tables in the database.

There is however a reason to not do any tasks daily, as it locks the tables until it has been completed; which could affect users utilizing your forum at that time and corruption could start occouring should a lot of users be trying to post in that timeframe.


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844 kilobytes of overhead in 2 weeks? No big deal. That means 844 kilobytes of data was deleted out of that table in 2 weeks. That ain't a whole hell of a lot. And your MySQL sure as heck isn't running slower for it. I think you're really going overboard with worry on this.

People are going to be deleting private messages or deleting or editing posts all day every day. It's going to make for an amount of overhead/dead space. Don't let yourself get into a position where you're freaking out over a little overhead every time someone deletes a PM. Your board doesn't even notice the difference.

Spend the time enjoying your board instead. smile



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In English, what is overhead?

I rememeber i tried to look up what it actually was
but ended up on double geeky sites.

I see it when i use phpmyadmin, so i know
its to do mysql but beyond that i havnt a clue.

Thanks in advance Mark.


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For speed, MySQL doesn't rebuild the tables every time that a minor change (editing posts, deleting posts, pm's, etc); on large boards it would grind to a hault as an optimize would lock the table for the maintenance option to complete.

The "overhead" is simply an indication of how much "dead space" is in the database; an optimization once a month (or whatever your backup schedule is) should be well sufficient to rebuild the tables to clear out the overhead.


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Originally Posted by Gizmo
I optimize monthly, just before my critical backups; additionally, I optimize all tables in the database.

There is however a reason to not do any tasks daily, as it locks the tables until it has been completed; which could affect users utilizing your forum at that time and corruption could start occouring should a lot of users be trying to post in that timeframe.

Gizmo, how do you optimize all tables in a database? Is there a special command for this? Please tell me you don't go through all the tables one by one with a separate command for each... smile

Also, why would there be risk of any database corruption if you can lock the board down before optimizing?

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It's all done automagially! lol... Or shell scripting, choose your poison...


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for me it's as easy as:
Code
[root@vnc ~]# ./optimize.sh
Table   Op      Msg_type        Msg_text
ubbage.ubb7_ADDRESS_BOOK        optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_ADMIN_SEARCHES      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_ANNOUNCEMENTS       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_BANNED_EMAILS       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_BANNED_HOSTS        optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_BANNED_USERS        optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_CACHE       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_CACHED_PERMISSIONS  optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_CALENDAR_EVENTS     optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_CAPTCHA     optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_CATEGORIES  optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_CENSOR_LIST optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_DISPLAY_NAMES       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_bans     optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_config   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_config_chats     optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_config_instances optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_config_values    optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_connections      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_ignors   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_messages optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_fc_rooms    optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_FILES       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_FORUMS      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_FORUM_LAST_VISIT    optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_FORUM_PERMISSIONS   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_GRAEMLINS   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_GROUPS      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_IMPORT_MAP  optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_LANGUAGES   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_MAILER      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_MEMBER_SEARCHES     optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_MODERATORS  optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_MODERATOR_NOTIFICATIONS     optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_MODERATOR_PERMISSIONS       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_ONLINE      optimize        note    The storage engine for the table doesn't support optimize
ubbage.ubb7_POINTER_DELETE      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_POLL_DATA   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_POLL_OPTIONS        optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_POLL_VOTES  optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_PORTAL_BOXES        optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_POSTS       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_POSTS       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_TOPICS      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_USERS       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_RATINGS     optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_REGISTRATION_FIELDS optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_RESERVED_NAMES      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_RSS_FEEDS   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_SAVED_QUERIES       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_SEARCH_AGENTS       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_SEARCH_RESULTS      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_SHOUT_BOX   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_STYLES      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_TOPICS      optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_TOPIC_VIEWS optimize        note    The storage engine for the table doesn't support optimize
ubbage.ubb7_USERS       optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_USER_DATA   optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_USER_GROUPS optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_USER_NOTES  optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_USER_PROFILE        optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_USER_TITLES optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_VERSION     optimize        status  Table is already up to date
ubbage.ubb7_WATCH_LISTS optimize        status  Table is already up to date

mmmm, yummy homebrew


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phpmyadmin V 2.8.2.4

Go to your Database
Select >> Structure
Scroll to the bottom
Check tables having overhead (Click on this - it does nothing until you change the default.)
Default = : With Selected

Just change the default too "Optermize Table"
And it does it all.

NOTE : I'm not in a position to say if thats the right way
or the wrong way, but ive just cleared a load of overhead.
Using the above method. And as Gizmo points out would be
a good idea before a back up too.

Cheers Gizmo for the expination, makes sense now wink

Last edited by Mark S; 03/02/2007 7:25 AM. Reason: added click on

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well i have a long way to go before i can write
a script to do that.


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Mark, that's all fine and dandy, however optimizing your databases through a php script is highly not advised if you have large forums; you're going to lock the tables for the optimization and any users trying to do anything are going to be in a fickle pickle...

Not to mention the PHP Maximum Execution time will eventually be hit if it takes long enough... Not to mention, you can't automate it thought phpmyadmin wink...


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BTW, heres a small chart to show the differance of using a script and using the command line.

Using a script:
1. Your browser, connects to the webserver.
2. The webserver connects to the MySQL server.

The problem here is that any requests to MySQL have to go through the webserver, and the webserver has a "maximum execution time" variable, once you go over this threshold, the server times out your request.

When the server is preforming critical tasks like optimizing or repairing tables, it locks those tables so that no new data can be written to them to avoid loss of data or possible curruption.

Using MySQL via command line:
You access MySQL directly, there is no maximum execution timeframe, as the webserver is not involved. As no webserver is involved, there will be no additional resource usage through the webserver.


Please note though, that I would highly recommend that you optimize your database before backing it up; theres no sense in backing something up when it could be much smaller and "optimized". :nod: lol


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Its easy for me to click on a button smile

I wouldnt know what to type in for a shell command.


/> : Gizmo optermize my tables please

lol


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Mark just loves how i do things :nod: I think he should hire me as his server tech lol


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Name yu price : in corn flakes lol...


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So to do it via the root command line I just need to type: ./optimize.sh

No parameters to set? Or is ".sh" one of them?

How can I make sure that it just optimizes the ubb database if I have others on the server that I don't want to optimize simultaneously?

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You'd need a shell script named optimize.sh; I coded mine from scratch; such scripts don't exist as any standard; you'd have to customize the hell out of an input string to MySQL lol.

On mine, i specify what tables i want optimized, and in what databases; then have it execute it at the beginning of my backup batch.


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Originally Posted by Mark S
Name yu price : in corn flakes lol...
can I have the one that looks like jefferson?


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optermize.sh

is more than likely a script file,
with the commands and refrences to optermize.

I would like to know shell commands.
or where to look to find out.

But i dont frown
Hence click on a button, as cave man like it is.


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Is there a regular command that I can use to optimize a database of my choice?

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you can use the mysql shell to optimize a table or tables, not a database, and there is no bash command for it, if "regular command" means a bash shell.


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Through custom scripting you could create a script to do it, however this is over the head of 90% of users who run websites.

Generally it's easier to stick to using the MySQL command line for running commands through your server; this would be as easy as:
1. Login to the Server via SSH or Telnet (I very much hope that the later is disabled on your machine for security).
2. Login to the MySQL command line:
Code
mysql -hlocalhost -uusername -p
This should first ask you for your password, and then drop you to the MySQL command line.
3. Issue the command to use the table of your choice:
Code
use my_database;
4. Issue the command of your choice; for this example, optimizing your UBB7 tables:
Code
OPTIMIZE TABLE `ubb7_ADDRESS_BOOK` , `ubb7_ADMIN_SEARCHES` , `ubb7_ANNOUNCEMENTS` , `ubb7_BANNED_EMAILS` , `ubb7_BANNED_HOSTS` , `ubb7_BANNED_USERS` , `ubb7_CACHE` , `ubb7_CACHED_PERMISSIONS` , `ubb7_CALENDAR_EVENTS` , `ubb7_CAPTCHA` , `ubb7_CATEGORIES` , `ubb7_CENSOR_LIST` , `ubb7_DISPLAY_NAMES` , `ubb7_fc_bans` , `ubb7_fc_config` , `ubb7_fc_config_chats` , `ubb7_fc_config_instances` , `ubb7_fc_config_values` , `ubb7_fc_connections` , `ubb7_fc_ignors` , `ubb7_fc_messages` , `ubb7_fc_rooms` , `ubb7_FILES` , `ubb7_FORUMS` , `ubb7_FORUM_LAST_VISIT` , `ubb7_FORUM_PERMISSIONS` , `ubb7_GRAEMLINS` , `ubb7_GROUPS` , `ubb7_IMPORT_MAP` , `ubb7_LANGUAGES` , `ubb7_MAILER` , `ubb7_MEMBER_SEARCHES` , `ubb7_MODERATORS` , `ubb7_MODERATOR_NOTIFICATIONS` , `ubb7_MODERATOR_PERMISSIONS` , `ubb7_ONLINE` , `ubb7_POINTER_DELETE` , `ubb7_POLL_DATA` , `ubb7_POLL_OPTIONS` , `ubb7_POLL_VOTES` , `ubb7_PORTAL_BOXES` , `ubb7_POSTS` , `ubb7_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_POSTS` , `ubb7_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_TOPICS` , `ubb7_PRIVATE_MESSAGE_USERS` , `ubb7_RATINGS` , `ubb7_REGISTRATION_FIELDS` , `ubb7_RESERVED_NAMES` , `ubb7_RSS_FEEDS` , `ubb7_SAVED_QUERIES` , `ubb7_SEARCH_AGENTS` , `ubb7_SEARCH_RESULTS` , `ubb7_SHOUT_BOX` , `ubb7_STYLES` , `ubb7_TOPICS` , `ubb7_TOPIC_VIEWS` , `ubb7_USERS` , `ubb7_USER_DATA` , `ubb7_USER_GROUPS` , `ubb7_USER_NOTES` , `ubb7_USER_PROFILE` , `ubb7_USER_TITLES` , `ubb7_VERSION` , `ubb7_WATCH_LISTS`;
5. When the above query is done, to exit mysql issue:
Code
\q


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I will give that a go later tonight on my test database,
and if it works, i'm not a million miles
from making a script smile

Cheers for the leader Gizmo, i know you like praise.


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Praise makes me purr like a kitten.... wink...


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