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Microsoft's Interoperability Principles and IE8
a beta version of Internet Explorer 8 will be released in the first half of 2008

Acid3: Putting Browser Makers on Notice, Again

Acid3 - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Non-compliant applications
As stated, on its release this test will fail in every browser on the market. When one is taking the test, one can click on the capital A in the word Acid3 to see an alert explaining exactly which subtests have failed, and what the error message was.

didnt IE7 just come out? lol... ie5 was out for ages before 6...

Maybe it will help with the memory issues with IE7 and vista.

It's about time. The only time I've seen the words "IE" and "standards" in the same sentence it has a "not" in it.

IE 7 was a huge jump forward in standards support - you'll find a number of developers that will say it had the best standards support of any major browser when it was released.

lolz

hehehe

I don't get beating up on Microsoft just for the sake of beating up on them. There are a lot of things they do badly or wrong, true, but when they do something right they should get recognition for that, as well.

Agreed !!!!

Open source monkeys are just non conformists who think they can do it better hhehhehehe

althought their wallets aren't as big as the guys actually doing it for a living

ohhh fighting words !!!!

at least opensource zelots listen to their users... and accept patches and feature additions from them

And at least Open Source projects started from the beginning, properly, with checks and balances -- and far surpass corporate products easily -- rather than spend 90% of their time correcting all their problems from Day 1 that's been bogging down their bloatware. And the other 10% of the time copying (stealing) ideas that OTHERS have already done a year ago because they don't have any original ideas. *cough*tabbed browsing and following standards*cough*

Oooooouch! That's gotta hurt. lol

MS's biggest problem with IE7? Changing the user interface (position of buttons mostly) after all these years, thinking that "change is good" even if it's superficial. It's a USABILITY NIGHTMARE on their part. And there is absolutely NO excuse for it.

Sooooo.... this news about IE8 is refreshing, if they really are going to *start* (yes, start) to follow some standards (by which I mean, eventually eliminating proprietary funtionality) and get any self-respect back. IE is only big because Windows is big. Not because it's a better browser, because it is FAR from it.

IMHO, of course.

Atleast with IE you can move everything around just the way you want it, a feature still missing from Firefox.

For me IE's best feature that it knows there are more standards out there then just the ones on a peace of paper.



I wonder what the best browser is then?

IMHO the differences are minor, and it's a matter of personal taste. I use firefox now because of some toolbars I can't live without anymore, but the moment they are available for internet explorer, I will kick out firefox because I in day to day surfing, firefox gives me more trouble on a day to day basis then IE ever has.

You can? It took a registry hack for me just to get the File/Edit line back to the top. I still can't get everything where I want it -- WHERE IT WAS! -- but then again, I stopped trying after a day because I just don't care to work that hard for no reason for a browser I don't use any more.


Opposite for me. If Active X didn't exist, I wouldn't have to go back.

Well I'm not a zealot for either side but the "Fan Boy" attitude of Open Source is quite tiring and actually a bit childish (in my opinion). Yes there are some excellent applications but enough of the RELIGIOUS Zealot attitude trying to convert someone as though you're saving your own life by doing so. (not saying anyone here goes to that level, but some people on other sites sure do.) I really just can not understand that attitude especially since you rarely hear it from actual PROGRAMMERS that are actively participating in making the application, but you sure do from just average users that have never added anything to the code or even feedback for beta testing.

No browser is 100% in compliance with the W3C / IETF for STANDARDS so I don't see why people continue to post as though it does comply 100%

Quirks Mode for Web Browsers

I agree on the interface changing of IE7 being just plain dumb - no benefit from my point of view either.

All browsers have and do allow their code to stray from the W3C/IETF standards because they need to operate on as many pages out there as possible regardless of how someone coded the page otherwise their browser loses marketing share.

If you go back many years there was no real movement in the W3C and approvals were taking way too long so IE and Netscape being the dominant browsers of the time took it upon themselves to start supporting NEW FEATURES just like Wireless Standards do, just like Modems did years ago. Now days we're more connected and have more people participating in these organizations so naturally Microsoft has some tough choices to make and attempting to provide the best of both Worlds is a good thing I think.

But there are those that wish to bash Microsoft and there is nothing now or in the future that will ever change that no matter what Microsoft does good or bad.

If one wanted to take the time and make a Website listing all the failed, crappy, useless, defunct, poorly written Open Source software it would (in my opinion) far exceed the poorly written applications from Microsoft.

If you like Nix*, Mac, Windows, Open Source, Private Source, etc... use it - doesn't matter to me as I use pieces from all these categories and I'm happy they all exist.

I'm by no means an open-source "zealot", but I like the paradigm. I'm just an end user who's not had a lot of good luck with IE compared to most everything else I've used the past 13 years. I started with Netscape 1.2N (or even Mosaic probably) and upgraded until one particular version of Netscape was a nightmare, then went to IE. But after a while that became a nightmare as well so FF was a welcome addition, and haven't had a problem yet. Maybe that'll become a nightmare someday, too, we'll have to see. But even Safari is better than IE7, IMHO.

I didn't mean to mock MS developers, of course -- just MSIE itself. (I do love XP -- best Windows version yet )

Yes XP Pro has become quite a nice running OS

Windows 98SE was actually quite nice as well at the time, just needed the 32Bit boost that Windows 2000 had. NT 3.x and NT 4.x just were not feature rich and the shell was a PITA

Well I don't actually recall what version of NS it was. For a long time it was just command line access to other networked computers then my brother told me about some GUI for browsing and I tried it. I think it was mosaic but not sure, that was a long time ago now.

I used mosaic, crikeys that was millenia ago

Everything NS after 4.0 was poop, it languished in crapware for years before firefox/mozilla saved the day.

I never really noticed the change in UI for IE7 until just now. I know I love that I can search google directly from the search bar without installing google's toolbar

I still haven't got used to vista's UI change, it hides the stuff I use all the time and I spent a week trying to figure out how to turn verticle scroll bars back on in MS Word 07 - not fun when you have a 797 page document you have to search in :smash:

Microsoft spent a lot of face time with developers and web standards people when developing IE7, there's a good example here:

http://www.webstandards.org/2005/11...oducts-xaml-acid2-sxsw-and-ie7-revealed/

And, IE8 passes the Acid2 test, the beloved firefox can't say that:

http://www.webstandards.org/2007/12/19/ie8-passes-acid2-test-2/

Theres so much more in the google toolbar than just searching google lol...

Yes it's called SPAM and CRAP

lol < quality reply >

Access to Google Bookmarks in toolbar isn't crap...
Being able to highlight search query isn't crap...
Going up a level i find is a help on some sites.
Auto Fill can save a lot of time
Pagerank is just fun
Being able to search Google/Google Images/site from one button click makes things speed up ...

Don't use most of that except once in a while so its **** to me

I think of Google more of a necessary evil rather than a wanted tool.

I still use Yahoo toolbar out of years of habit. It was nice to have my bookmarks handy on others' computers, but I think they all do that now. I still prefer My Yahoo over iGoogle, but, I do search w/ Google more often, and use more of their tools... Guess I'm bi-something

heh, he's not bi... just a little, curious?

So much of that is designed to get just that much more private info from you. (Sell our web-surfing history? nah... :smash:)

Well, the more private info they have on me, the better the service they can give me.

I don't as individual I am worth so much, but being part of group, why not

You know, they are quite open with you about which features can be privacy issues within the toolbar... So it'd be ones choice not to use said feature...

I just read a newsstory (in dutch, so won't copy it here :)) about yahoo being the #1 userdata collector.

oh, linky to english stuff: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/technology/10privacy.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

There are just different types of people when it comes to such privacy concerns.

1. No concern whatsoever
2. Slightly concerned but clueless
3. Slightly concerned but not enough to do anything about it
4. Concerned and takes some action to avoid
5. Very concerned - takes most actions to avoid
6. Paranoid (isn't reading here as it might be stored)

I think I fall into category 4 most of the time.

To be honest if more people were in the 4 or 5 category then SPAM mail would probably only be 1/10 of what it is now days.
But typically most people won't change their category

As for chosing what you make private - come on I know most of you have been around long enough to have seen and read numerous times where PRIVATE even Private Company and Medical data was "accidentally" released to the public. If they didn't have that data in the first place it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to have "leaked" it. But to each his/her own.