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Re: Your vote counts!
AllenAyres #219456 11/20/2008 8:38 AM
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Took a look at OpenID and it seems like a good idea. The concern I have is what would happen if a username is already taken. I am not a tech guru so maybe there are rules for it. At this point anything that can help to make integration/plug in easier is a major step for UBB.

Rick please make the bold move and give the software the ability to integrate.

Re: Your vote counts!
AllenAyres #219461 11/20/2008 9:03 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenAyres
OpenID sounds like a good idea, unless it screws up the millions of current members of ubb forums.

I have little to no interest in OpenID. I understand the concept, but at least for me, it's not something I care about - but that's just me, based on my community. If it is implemented, I hope it is a option for the admin.

Last edited by Basil; 11/20/2008 9:03 AM.
Re: Please... OpenID ... Please.....
smallufo #219464 11/20/2008 11:47 AM
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Sorry to disturb again.
This attachment is a simple UBBThreads-OpenID integration diagram.
For you who are not familiar with openID.
Just to emphasize that , there will be no db schema changes. It's just a simple standard / de-facto service , but helps "expanding" our site very much.

Attached Files ubbthreads-openid.gif


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Re: Please... OpenID ... Please.....
smallufo #219471 11/20/2008 4:00 PM
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Thanks for the diagram on how it would work. It looks like it would be a major step forward.

Re: Please... OpenID ... Please.....
canecutter #219481 11/20/2008 8:11 PM
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I understand how it works and I've had one for a while now but actually never really use it so far. Maybe someday I'll be with a site that uses it and I like the site and stay around.

Re: Your vote counts!
Fishtails #219483 11/20/2008 8:14 PM
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Looking at the current Poll Blogs win. cry


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Re: Your vote counts!
Ruben #219485 11/20/2008 8:19 PM
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Damn, I can't vote twice frown

Re: Your vote counts!
gliderdad #219486 11/20/2008 8:21 PM
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I guess we could register as a new user 100 times and flood the poll


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Re: Your vote counts!
Ruben #219487 11/20/2008 8:25 PM
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I like how you think wink

Re: Your vote counts!
gliderdad #219488 11/20/2008 8:28 PM
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How do you say: Different strokes for different folks!


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Re: Your vote counts!
Rick #219489 11/20/2008 8:28 PM
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And how fair would that be?

If the UI was winning and someone suggested that you wouldn't be to happy right?

Re: Your vote counts!
JAISP #219490 11/20/2008 8:29 PM
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Agree!
Just having some fun with this.
I just want some existing features enhanced. I really don't care what the outcome of this poll is.


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Re: Your vote counts!
Ruben #219491 11/20/2008 8:38 PM
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It was a joke, just having fun. It don't matter to me if blogs come as we wouldn't use it. I voted for UI as its only makes sense to do that first.

Re: Your vote counts!
gliderdad #219496 11/21/2008 9:56 AM
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It's looking that way. It won't delay the UI update all that long. Like I said, our blog implementation will be fairly basic at first, so we're not talking about a 3 month development cycle for this one wink

Re: Your vote counts!
Rick #219498 11/21/2008 10:47 AM
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Rick

Please don't avoid the Integration/Open ID discussion being that the blogs won. If you mention it in another post please point me there. If not can you give a statement on if this is in the future plans for the software. It would probably help many us with our planning in the future year.

Re: Your vote counts!
Rick #219499 11/21/2008 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
Like I said, our blog implementation will be fairly basic at first

Mmmm... I want to "revoke" my vote for blog.

I think a simple blog system doesn't appeal to users any more now , because users are "spoiled" by many OpenSource and fancy blog systems.

WordPress has a lot of plugins to 'play' with. The WordPress ecosystem is much larger than UBBThreads .
UBBThreads should think to leverage the ecosystem to expand site's functionality , not to re-invent the wheel.

I think UBBThreads have many other important features needed to be implemented (UI / WYSIWYG editor / ... ) , all focus on forum . As to features beyond forum ( Blog / Chatroom / Album / other plugins ...) , there are already myriads of mature solutions out there. Since OpenID is a promising technology about identity confirmation , data exchange , UBBThreads should seriously look into it , it will help you reduce a lot of "wheel"

There is a Chinese proverb "Person who complains a merchandise is the one that really buys it". I have many complains about UBBT (especially the slow develop process , advice acceptance) , but I also have supported UBBThreads since WWWThreads.perl ,in fact , I just renewed the license yesterday. I know "Open" is the only key to make a site strong and vital. I hope Rick can think and think again.

Sincerely



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Re: Your vote counts!
smallufo #219500 11/21/2008 1:22 PM
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I personally do not care anymore if they do Blogs or the IU. If I like the product I will buy it and support it, if not I will just buy something else. There are many companies out there that make products that will fit my needs either being UBB or someone other company.

Re: Your vote counts!
Rick #219509 11/21/2008 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
It's looking that way. It won't delay the UI update all that long. Like I said, our blog implementation will be fairly basic at first, so we're not talking about a 3 month development cycle for this one wink

So, the next version should be version 7.5, and version 8.0 with the UI update should come shortly afterward.

Re: Your vote counts!
Pink Jazz #219530 11/23/2008 8:31 PM
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I think it boils down to whether you want this to continue to be bulletin board software, or if you are trying to move into CMS space. I say continue to make it a better bulletin board software (one we've been paying for since 2000 and recently purchased Gold for), and leave the "other" stuff for the existing packages that folks can already get. Do one thing and do it best.


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Re: Your vote counts!
QSS Tim #219531 11/23/2008 9:59 PM
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thats why i want to push for an API and better UI tongue...


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Re: Your vote counts!
Gizmo #219532 11/23/2008 10:05 PM
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I couldn't agree more, I would hate to see it go into cms territory.

Re: Your vote counts!
QSS Tim #219533 11/23/2008 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by QSS Tim
I think it boils down to whether you want this to continue to be bulletin board software, or if you are trying to move into CMS space. I say continue to make it a better bulletin board software (one we've been paying for since 2000 and recently purchased Gold for), and leave the "other" stuff for the existing packages that folks can already get. Do one thing and do it best.


Well put! That has been my feeling all along. I inherited a UBB board and I also run phpBB (which I'm eager to switch to UBB once the importer is ready for v3).

If you put some resources toward developing a decent API you will build your customer base simply by providing a means for the end user to plug in what they want/need most.


Re: Your vote counts!
Island Piper #219534 11/23/2008 11:36 PM
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See, the one thing I was excited about when I heard about the anouncement of UBB.T7 (when CC was on board) was that they where going to lean towards an API (back when they where thinking of encoding the sourcecode); I hope upon hopes that eventually we have something in place to build upon... It'd be excellent for addons and tie ins to other products...


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Re: Your vote counts!
QSS Tim #219535 11/24/2008 4:06 AM
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Problem is you also have to compete against other products. So you either follow a similar route or produce something that the competitors do not have.

Sadly a simple forum software is probably not going to cut it in today's marketplace with free products available.

Surely at the end of a day a forum is just one part of a community, and we all need to attract and keep users who are looking for a bit more than just a forum. Even forum admins have competitors and if we also do not stay ahead of the game we too will lose business.

Re: Your vote counts!
Ian #219538 11/24/2008 8:30 AM
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The thing I do not like about the UBB is that as more things gets added the control panel takes on more stuff and takes tons of time to do the most simple things, if you can figure out where to find the part you need to do it in.

If you add a forum you need to go to many places and edit existing permissions in your CP. If you have a large site this takes forever and you always forget something.

Adding a manual into the software per say that you can run your mouse over and click on to find out how to set a function is great with that type instruction however it will not help you find out how to get there. You need to be an expert or a rocket scientist just to administer the thing anymore.

I feel even with the added little "hints" aka know as a "manual" in this format will not help the product at all .I my self practically gave up on Blogs even though I want them very badly and are looking for a different Blog software at this time as I feel it will be so hard to find the proper places to set up the stuff in the control panel.

Now as far as the UI upgrade and update this will make matters even worse in this area. Yes this is a fine product but unless you make a manual that you can put in a PDF format and print out on paper nothing you do will make it easier to administer, find the proper stuff, or even make the control panel better. This is why I voted for blogs over the UI upgrade and overhaul.

Rick your a great guy and a really good programmer but the problem in this is the inability to call you and discuss anything with you these days. In past times an intelligent person could actually get you on the phone and talk to you. Since you no longer go to the office other then putting in a support ticket or trying to express your problem in a public forum typing takes days where a simple phone call would take minutes.

I love the product and Rick is great however in recent times it has become very difficult to operate or figure out to get things done. Once again a 15 minute phone call would save a weeks time in communications with you Rick. Hire someone to be your go between.

Re: Your vote counts!
Rick #219540 11/24/2008 9:54 AM
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This will probably be the last time I do a public poll on what to work on next, as it went off in all different tangents. Everyone wants something different and what is important to some is not so important to others.

We're not shooting to be a CMS, or the new social networking thing. We just add things that fit in with what's there. If we were simply trying to be the best discussion forum out there, then the portal and the gallery forums would have never been put in, since it could have just hooked in with some other software to do both of those.

Yes, our blogs will be limited, just like our photo gallery forums are limited. That doesn't mean they won't be useful to some. Photopost is much more feature rich than our gallery forums, but ours work fine for many customers. So, the same thing can be said for blogs. It's pretty much going to be an extended personal profile. Not everyone is going to use it, but many will. Yes there is a lot of different software out there that does blogs better, but many of our customers don't have the interest or the knowledge on installing these.

I've said this a few times and I'll put it forth once more. Since 7.0 was put out, we've been somewhat playing catch up with everyone else. We needed to get all of the basic features in place and then start improving on what's there.

We needed to get CAPTCA in, which we did. However it still needs to support more image libraries.

We needed to get payment processing in place, which we did. However it still needs to support more than just paypal or check/money order.

We needed to get a new permission system in place, which we did. However it still needs to be easier to use.

We needed to get gallery forums in, which we did. However it needs to support more image libraries as well, and be extended to personal galleries.

We need to get blogs in. They'll be basic at first like most of the above features.

At that point, we'll have everything we really need to offer and we can work on improving what we have. Better UI, easier to use, etc. A built-in manual, along with a downloadable one (yes this will be coming since we'll be documenting everything anyways).

All that being said. We've said blogs have been coming for quite awhile now. I didn't make my personal preference hidden on which I'd like to do first between these two, however enough people want blogs that we can't just yank the carpet out from under their feet, so that's what we'll do first. Like I said, it's probably just going to be a better personal profile. It's not a huge feature, so it's not something that's going to take an insane amount of time so it won't push things back that far.

Re: Your vote counts!
Rick #219542 11/24/2008 10:15 AM
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Thats all great. But some of the problems are having a simple log in for a site with all software using the same log in not have 3 different software packages with 3 different registrations and 3 different login for each thing.

I agree not many users or "communities" have the desire to use all of the things or are large enough to be pressured into having them.

I have plenty of experience in servers, software, programming, and find that doing many things are very difficult when it comes to working with the UBB.threads with other applications. When UBB made the change from classic to threads many things has changed and continued to change in the back end of the software leaving no "standard" for the actual product we use in the UBB. This makes it extremely difficult to have other software work with the database to give a one login approach for a community utilizing many software packages and abilities.

The major problem is not that it is not compatible with other software as this can be changed through a patch type software making all of the community software written by others compatible with a single user database but the constant changed from one version to the next in the database. I totally understand that you need to make modifications to add more things in the database but a simple standard of operation in the user database would be a great help.

Like I said you loose the ability to express and takes forever to relay your opinion and thought process through a message board over the ability to have a simple conversation for just a few minutes. I'm not suggesting going to the past where anyone could get you on the phone but rather give the option for you to contact a single person once and a while to discuss major issues. other do have some what experience and intelligence in the subject as well. I have talked to Dave D and Charles C in the past many times and relayed to you things that eventually became part of the product. This ability other then through a support ticket or a chat conversation no longer exists in your company and no one at Groupee knows nothing or will even give you the time of the day.

Make your product better by making it friendly to other software packages.

Are you following what I'm trying to relay in a chat conversation here?

Re: Your vote counts!
JAISP #219543 11/24/2008 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick
We're not shooting to be a CMS, or the new social networking thing. We just add things that fit in with what's there. If we were simply trying to be the best discussion forum out there, then the portal and the gallery forums would have never been put in, since it could have just hooked in with some other software to do both of those.

I'm not suggesting you do but make it easier for us "Smaller Web Sites" to make our communities software work together.

Re: Your vote counts!
JAISP #219544 11/24/2008 10:27 AM
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Making the product better by making it friendly with other products is where the API will come in. It's been another thing that's been talked about for awhile, however it kept getting pushed back for the features I mentioned above to be put in place.

We haven't totally gotten rid of discussion by phone. I've done it many times when it's needed. All contact is still initiated by an email or support ticket however since 95% of the time the issue/problem/question can be resolved through those means.

Re: Your vote counts!
Rick #219545 11/24/2008 11:13 AM
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I understand.

I'm hoping your as well as others understand that I am not trying to put down the product you put out there. It is a very good product.

The major issue for communities I have if I have several different login's for each part of the community then people will go to other places to get better support or what not. This is a major issue for my community.

I wish to extend what I have and utilize the full potential of the software I'm currently using. being a small company without the Corp., Inc., LLC., or other big named titles I have to compete every day just for users. I'm not unlimited in resources as many of the other users of your software and I am a one man show. I do this part time and do not have the time to rewrite all my stuff constantly every time there is an upgrade to the software to make it compatible with the rest of the stuff running in my communities.

I surly hope you move toward the direction of having your software the ability to share a log in database to be a one login community compatible software even if you never incorporate things like Blogs or what not into the community. But on the other hand I feel if you mention something like Blogs in like 2006 you shouldn't take 3 or 4 years to incorporate it into the community as well. In that case if it is just a thought then leave it a thought till you actually have the time to do it and do it right, just my 2 cents.

Buy the way I just love to use the "Small guy" thing, I think it is funny, LOL. I have more resources then most small businesses and Web Host's out there and think thats kind of funny. I just like to have the ability to do what ever I wish when ever I feel like it.

Oh yes you do have both my home and cell phone number if you wish to share thoughts.

Re: Your vote counts!
JAISP #219548 11/24/2008 12:17 PM
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For many the OpenID suggestion is very limited in use - even if it were fully supported now there's no other software out there I am currently interested in using it with.

Development has always been an elastic process, even if ideas and thoughts were mentioned years ago they may or may not ever see the light of day. Other things come along that take priority over previous thoughts and ideas. Relax a bit and spend more time on your own site if this topic gets you worked up.

I can't remember ever (in 9-10 years here) there being a poll about what features are wanted next, I'm guessing we won't see another for at least 10 years smile


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Re: Your vote counts!
AllenAyres #219552 11/24/2008 12:41 PM
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LOL

I'm in the process of installing Blogs by WordPress with OpenID on the site. If UBB goes the way of OpenID as well that would be a great thing too.

Re: Your vote counts!
AllenAyres #219556 11/24/2008 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AllenAyres
For many the OpenID suggestion is very limited in use - even if it were fully supported now there's no other software out there I am currently interested in using it with.

I think it only depends on webmaster's enthusiasm and ambition. If he wants to boost his site's functionality , he can find (or write by himself) many interesting OpenID apps to hook to UBBThreads.

I am a java web developer , I've developed a wicket-based chatroom that consumes OpenID . Everyone can use a valid OpenID to login to chat.

But to make it run on my site (running UBBThreads) , I have to write another adapter , to identify one's identity with his cookies , and connect to mysql to check his password. It's not a 'de facto / standard' way. That's why I think UBBT should make an OpenID interface , making UBBT as an OpenID identity provider , it will make developers (like me) easily to hook their applications to UBBThreads.

After all , not all programmers know PHP , and not all programmers know how to check one's cookie with MD5 hashing (That's why there is only a few plugins for UBBT , most are modifications), but each modern programmer can easily use his skilled language to connect to OpenID provider and do some simple metadata exchange. If there exists an OpenID interface here , it 'may' boost one site's functionality.



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Re: Your vote counts!
smallufo #219562 11/24/2008 3:51 PM
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Exactly smallufo, well said.

Re: Your vote counts!
JAISP #219585 11/24/2008 7:35 PM
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Myself, I'd rather see an API than OpenID; this is just my opinion however as a web developer...


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Re: Your vote counts!
Gizmo #219610 11/25/2008 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gizmo
Myself, I'd rather see an API than OpenID; this is just my opinion however as a web developer...
In fact , I want both.
So that I can write more mash-ups



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Re: Your vote counts!
smallufo #219614 11/25/2008 5:43 PM
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While some developers may be very excited about OpenID support, I'm just guessing that it's less than 1% of the ubb.threads owners. Most just want it to be a good discussion forum.

It sounds like a potentially interesting feature, but it has to be way down the list for upcoming features. No-one who hasn't already posted in this topic has requested it in the last 4 years. I voted for blogs but UI is way way above openid in need. smile


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Re: Your vote counts!
AllenAyres #219624 11/25/2008 7:44 PM
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API and UI (Validation, AJAX, etc) are at the top of my list tongue


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Re: Your vote counts!
AllenAyres #219693 11/27/2008 2:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AllenAyres
It sounds like a potentially interesting feature, but it has to be way down the list for upcoming features. No-one who hasn't already posted in this topic has requested it in the last 4 years.
That's because OpenID becomes de-facto standard in this year.

I mentioned/suggested this in February



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Re: Your vote counts!
smallufo #219786 11/30/2008 9:12 PM
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Forgive the newbie question, but XHTML and CSS 2.1 validation?

David

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