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#265393 07/10/2022 4:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
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I'm making an effort to update our website to use the latest html and css, and part of that process is eliminating tables entirely for layout. I know that we are using tables to layout the header for our forum, so I thought I'd copy the source code of the forum home page into a test page and fiddle with our code to see if I could get it working without tables.

Much to my surprise, I discovered that ubb is using tables for layout as well.

Are the developers working on converting the software to correct layout for html5 and css3?

We have about 5600 static pages that need updating, so we will be at this for a while. I know this is a monumental task. I'm just asking if it's in the development plan for 8.0 or later?

BTW, I highly recommend looking at flexbox css if you have not already.


The Stovebolt Geek
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

x86_64 GNU/Linux
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UBB.threads Developer
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UBB.threads Developer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,917
Likes: 140
There is nothing wrong with using tables in HTML5 or HTML4, except that they should be used correctly. This means, they should be used as tabular tables, not layout grids. Early web designers used tables for user interface layouts because CSS support across browsers used to be terrible. table layouts are much less common nowadays, but you'll still see them used all over the web.

Because UBB.threads base code was released in 2005 (and written prior), the base templates were based on table grids of that time. Around 2017 I took on the long task of upgrading all of the templates from HTML static grid tables and inlined styles, to a responsive layout capable of displaying on desktop and mobile screens, and moving most all inlined style to their proper CSS files. This work has maintained backward compatibility with UBB.threads from 2005, while functioning correctly on all screen sizes in today's world (2022). Current versions of UBB.threads are using a responsive system based on table grids and modern CSS standards.

Be aware that modern internet tech is still stuck using tables for email layout, if you need to support the majority of email clients unfortunately.
https://www.caniemail.com/features/css-display-grid/

Also be aware that older browsers (Internet Explorer 11 and older) do not support CSS3.
For example, flexbox and object-fit only became available as of Edge 16, iOS 8.1, Android 4.3.
https://caniuse.com/flexbox
https://caniuse.com/object-fit

In 2017 you stated, "Some of our members are using 2400 baud modems."
https://www.ubbcentral.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/260341/restricting-images

Do you still have users connecting to your modern website using 30+ year old ancient dial-up (POTS) hardware?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem#Evolution_of_dial-up_speeds

Last edited by isaac; 07/11/2022 2:23 PM. Reason: corrected a refrence link

Current developer of UBB.threads PHP Forum Software
Current Release: UBBT 7.7.5 // Work In Progress: soon
isaac @ id242.com // my forum @ CelicaHobby.com
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 323
Likes: 7
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OP Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 323
Likes: 7
Thanks for the explanation.
Quote
In 2017 you stated, "Some of our members are using 2400 baud modems."
https://www.ubbcentral.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/260341/restricting-images

Do you still have users connecting to your modern website using 30+ year old ancient dial-up (POTS) hardware?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem#Evolution_of_dial-up_speeds
We have members from all over the world, so I have no doubt we still have a few. We haven't had any recent complaints about slow connections or slowness loading images though.


The Stovebolt Geek
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

x86_64 GNU/Linux
UBBThreads 7.7.5
Web Server Apache/2.4.6
PHP Version 7.4.30
MySQL Version 5.7.38
Database Size 1.72 GB

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